General Discussion

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)

122. That's only the deal if you make it the deal.

Thu Sep 24, 2015, 04:30 PM

Sep 2015

Last edited Sun Sep 27, 2015, 06:25 AM - Edit history (1)

If you disagree with any single Church doctrine and you still identify as a Catholic, then you obviously do not accept the all or nothing doctrine, either.

On the abortion issue, if you actually believe that human life begins at conception and thus that fetuses have a right to life equal with that of humans, then it follows that abortion is murder. That is why abortion rights are and have been so controversial. While I personally believe that women must have the final say on their own reproductive systems, I can also see how that view can be disputed by someone whose belief system characterizes abortion as the murder of an innocent human being.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

138 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Who knew that the Pope was Catholic? [View all] mhatrw Sep 2015 OP

Really? You're shocked that Democrats on a Democratic board get pissed about a man who PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #1

The guy is heroic within the constraints of a terrible doctrine. mhatrw Sep 2015 #4

Post removed Post removed Sep 2015 #9

I don't dig a bigot. I like his views on economic justice. mhatrw Sep 2015 #26

Rick Santorum is for raising the minimum wage are you going to praise him too? LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #57

GW Bush did good things on AIDS in Africa. No one on DU eve praises him for that, here is Gene Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #72

He is still the leader of an organization which actively oppresses millions. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #10

Sure, the Pope and the Catholic Church deserve criticism. mhatrw Sep 2015 #27

There is NO economic justice without reproductive freedom. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #29

Yeah, we wouldn't want anybody with any influence making the case mhatrw Sep 2015 #37

There can be no economic justice without reproductive freedom. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #41

you have the economic luxury of taking that absolute stand virtualobserver Sep 2015 #78

Quite the contrary. Those people need birth control to held escape poverty more than I ever would. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #79

they need that as well......but this Pope has taken a step in the right direction virtualobserver Sep 2015 #80

"The Gorbachev of the Vatican" hifiguy Sep 2015 #123

Sure. Who's the more righteous man? One who left the church because Hortensis Sep 2015 #33

What has he changed? PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #35

Peace, Nikki. I came back just to point out that Hortensis Sep 2015 #39

What change? Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #69

Your comment noted, Blue. Ship of Planet doesn't come around Hortensis Sep 2015 #73

No, you offered much more. Your comment made no mention of the African AIDS crisis which I Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #82

And yours completely ignores the Church's role in caring for people. Hortensis Sep 2015 #84

No, it is yours that is incomplete, the running narrative here is 'the Pope is great' so I point out Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #88

Speaking truth isn't truth if it's grossly distorted by exclusion. Hortensis Sep 2015 #94

He's the guy who gets to change the doctrine. Limbo finally went; so can homophobia and misogyny. merrily Sep 2015 #12

And at a time when reproductive freedom is being ferociously attacked, the last ting I want to do PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #13

I think we can praise him for recognizing the needy, well, need, and should be helped. merrily Sep 2015 #16

You can. I won't. Not now, not ever. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #18

Nor would I force you to. merrily Sep 2015 #19

Reproductive freedom is integral to the discussions on poverty and climate change. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #20

I never said he should be praised for things like that. Indeed, I've been saying the opposite. merrily Sep 2015 #21

I find it bizarre that Catholicism, and Christianity as a whole, gets more criticism than one other WinkyDink Sep 2015 #105

WEIRD, I hear the opposite anytime I criticize Islam. Right, the RCC kills people differently. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #106

Agree! LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #114

Exactly. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #115

Especially since Joe Biden, who most here seem to like, is a devout Catholic (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2015 #2

Joe voted for DOMA and for decades opposed civil rights because of his faith. Don't much like him. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #6

I'm sorry. merrily Sep 2015 #17

Joe and Barack both said shitty things and hired hate preachers to attack us and never apologized Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #23

I know. I'm sorry. I wish it had been otherwise. merrily Sep 2015 #24

My heart is breaking Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #81

Too bad for them. Marriage equality is the supreme law of the land in the USA and we were behind merrily Sep 2015 #99

Oh so bigotry is his heritage and birhtright? And he must be allowed to preach his bigotry in Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #3

Is the Pope Catholic? n/t mhatrw Sep 2015 #5

A bigot is a bigot is a bigot is a bigot-Gertrude Stein Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #7

Does a bear sh*t in the woods? n/t CincyDem Sep 2015 #15

Also, Pope McDreamy gets a hell of a lot more love than criticism here. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #8

I expect the Pope to be a bigoted asshole, I do not expect so called 'liberals' to cheer for his Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #11

"This is a political board, not a Catholic board"... SidDithers Sep 2015 #28

I won't like them. But I would agree with them about climate change. mhatrw Sep 2015 #30

I sure as hell would not start OPs in which I claim a racist or bigot is progressive, which is what Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #34

Are we supposed to shun everyone in our lives treestar Sep 2015 #50

I did not say any of these things. Shun? Where did I suggest any such thing? Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #91

But they are NOT cheering for his "bigotry and anti-choice conservatism." Maedhros Sep 2015 #101

Perhaps no change in thousands* of years should not be accepted or excused so very casually? merrily Sep 2015 #14

Cake and eat it too. RCC says their Church was established by Christ upon Peter, 'upon this rock' Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #31

I see it as aborbing much older beliefs into Christianity, not as inventing them, but whatever. merrily Sep 2015 #38

I understand. It's just so galling to see DU affect a great devotion to an anti gay bigot. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #42

I'm sorry. I don't think they intend at all to endorse the Church's homophobia or misogyny, only merrily Sep 2015 #44

Rachel came from a very conservative Catholic family, she's not really in charge of my brain. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #93

I wish I knew something to say. The only thing I can think of is that, while still very painful, merrily Sep 2015 #98

Vitriol is an appropriate response to any supporting regressive views... Orsino Sep 2015 #22

Thing is, it's indelible, only if and to the degree the Pope says it is. merrily Sep 2015 #45

Well, to the degree a given Pope says plus centuries of all the other Popes and dogma. Orsino Sep 2015 #48

I think that's an excuse. Limbo was very old and had been explained and justified up the yin yang. merrily Sep 2015 #51

Of course it's an excuse. Orsino Sep 2015 #53

Not so fast. Contraception. You think there's going to be a big outcry against allowing that? merrily Sep 2015 #55

Thanks. I'd forgotten contraception. Orsino Sep 2015 #58

I disagree as to contraception and probably other things too. merrily Sep 2015 #59

"Who am I to judge?" plays very well with those of us who aren't all that judgmental... Orsino Sep 2015 #67

We disagree. And doing the right thing is not contingent upon audience reaction, esp. for a Pope. merrily Sep 2015 #70

Keeping one's powder dry is a genuine concern. Orsino Sep 2015 #74

I said nothing about overnight. You're reaching. merrily Sep 2015 #75

You haven't really specified a time-frame... Orsino Sep 2015 #92

... SidDithers Sep 2015 #25

Thank Jesus that non-progressives can dismiss the Pope's economic justice message. mhatrw Sep 2015 #32

That's the problem right there. You want to define 'justice' to mean 'anti gay and anti choice Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #40

You are the one tying the views together. I am being a good cafeteria Catholic. n/t mhatrw Sep 2015 #46

Cafeteria Catholic. LOL... SidDithers Sep 2015 #56

it's always crickets when you ask this question. Always. n/t Fix The Stupid Sep 2015 #63

This is exactly my point. alarimer Sep 2015 #89

Being Catholic is a choice.... SidDithers Sep 2015 #90

Right. Or like being a lower or middle class Clinton supporter. n/t mhatrw Sep 2015 #137

If you disagree with one doctrine, why can't you disagree with the all or none doctrine? mhatrw Sep 2015 #109

Democrats don't have Canon Law which forbids such a thing. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #117

Again, I am not a Catholic. But if a self-identified Catholic disagrees mhatrw Sep 2015 #129

. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #130

You are preaching to the choir on this one. mhatrw Sep 2015 #133

I'm not. I am pointing out that Catholics (such as RFK, JFK and Biden) mhatrw Sep 2015 #108

It's amazing, isn't it Sid? Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #116

A buffet bullshitter? That's a term of art meaning 'hypocrite'. Look, if you can't deal with Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #62

I'm not a Catholic. I was just born that way. mhatrw Sep 2015 #110

Who exactly do you credit him with influencing? With whom is his message resonating? PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #43

I think the message is important. mhatrw Sep 2015 #49

With whom is that message resonating? PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #54

What the hell is that supposed to mean? mhatrw Sep 2015 #112

rofl PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #113

I followed the subthread. You don't have a single clue mhatrw Sep 2015 #127

lol PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #128

LOL. mhatrw Sep 2015 #131

Weird, I thought all of this week's hubub is because he's speaking to the US Congress. PeaceNikki Sep 2015 #132

In the USA, hopefully his message will reach some Republican Catholics. mhatrw Sep 2015 #134

Who knew progressives would go to pieces over a religious leader who happened to say something they Brickbat Sep 2015 #36

Yes, and I'll take agreement where I can get it treestar Sep 2015 #47

Your views are well known. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #66

zzzzzzz treestar Sep 2015 #68

And you who never asked for forgiveness just attack again. You who claim to be bridge building Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #86

The abortion position of the Catholic Church has not been a constant, however. yellowcanine Sep 2015 #52

The "who am I to judge" comment was about priest who remain celebate! LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #61

Yup... SidDithers Sep 2015 #64

Got Hypocrisy? mhatrw Sep 2015 #120

She changed... SidDithers Sep 2015 #121

Why has she changed? Did her deeply held moral beliefs change? mhatrw Sep 2015 #126

You'd have to ask her... SidDithers Sep 2015 #135

I'm suggesting that people can support, say, Obama's views on gay marriage, mhatrw Sep 2015 #138

They do not mind the dishonesty of that claim at all. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #71

"Who am I to judge?" is a BIG step forward mhatrw Sep 2015 #119

His views are based in inequality, not equality as you are trying to say. NCTraveler Sep 2015 #60

Who knew that Pat Robertson was a Southern Baptist? LostOne4Ever Sep 2015 #65

Gee, maybe I should be more tolerant of someone who is against LGBT rights Deadshot Sep 2015 #76

I don't expect him to embrace abortion, gay rights or women as priests, gateley Sep 2015 #77

Of course he's judging us. He opposes our equal rights. It is not possible to determine that some Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #83

I understand your point, but perhaps you could try to understand mine, too. gateley Sep 2015 #85

Your point is that he's not judging, but he is. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #95

Thank you for your response. nt gateley Sep 2015 #100

The deal is to accept ANY of it, you have to accept ALL of it, even the nasty parts. alarimer Sep 2015 #87

That's only the deal if you make it the deal. mhatrw Sep 2015 #122

He's the bigoted mouthpiece of a global child abuse ring. Codeine Sep 2015 #96

So much conflicting imagery from this Pope. BlueIndyBlue Sep 2015 #97

A bear in the woods told me underpants Sep 2015 #102

Who knew so-called progressives would slobber over the head of a Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #103

Who knew that progressives would salute the flag of mhatrw Sep 2015 #124

At least here women are now entitled to vote and hold power, abortion is (somewhat) legal, Arugula Latte Sep 2015 #136

Off Topic - sorta - but when I was growing up in N.E. Wisconsin ... Myrina Sep 2015 #104

His message isn't refreshing or new, in addition you are arguing that Catholic beliefs are bigoted.. Humanist_Activist Sep 2015 #107

I don't give him a pass. I appreciate that he's good for a Pope. mhatrw Sep 2015 #125

People need to realize that the Pope's not anyone's trained monkey. Tommy_Carcetti Sep 2015 #111

People do what they've done since the first BBS...they vent their pent up anger and Rex Sep 2015 #118