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In reply to the discussion: Fuck. This. Shit. [View all]Ms. Toad
(34,188 posts)75. I disagree with this assertion, as to jokes about sexual abuse,
blacks, gays, etc.
To say that what is inappropriate now was always inappropriate is to ignore the fact that attitudes change, and what was accepted as humour back in the day, or in a certain context, may not be acceptable when judged by current-day standards. Thankfully, such standards change as we evolve as a nation and as a people and what was laugh-inducing once upon a time is no longer a laughing matter when viewed through a 2017 lens.
That is not different in nature than saying this: To say that slavery, which is inappropriate now, was always inappropriate is to ignore the fact that attitudes change, and what was accepted as the proper relationship betwen the races back in the day, or in a certain context, may not be acceptable when judged by current-day standards. Thankfully, such standards change as we evolve as a nation and as a people, and what was the appropriate relationship between the races once upon a time is no longer the appropriate relationship when viewed through a 2017 lens.
More to the point - Moore's behavior was "back in the day." The fact that it was relatively commonplace doesn't make it appropriate. Any more than slavery, or antisemitism, or any number of other attitudes carried into practice that treat classes of people as less than cis-straight-white-men.
As to this particular kinds of humor - crude sexual humor that exploited men's power over women, or boys-will-be-boys attitudes was NEVER appropriate. It was commonplace - and women were ridiculed for challenging it - even back in the day. Being commonplace, however, doesn't make it appropriate, even back in the day.
I've been an activist, working on raising awareness about this type of crude sexual humor (among other things) since the mid-70s.
Hurtful behavior is hurtful behavior. The fact that we didn't care to notice the impact on certain classes of victims until recently does not make the hurtful behavior appropriate.
In the midst of the #MeToo movement when many women are finally finding the courage to share the stories that are seared in their memories, it is offensive to deride as "suddenly remembered," the story of one woman - whose #MeToo moment happens to be with a man we like.
Far too many men (and - it appears-women) accepted misogynistic humor as perfectly fine and participated in it. That said, people change. Nothing I have heard suggests that this was a pervasive problem with Senator Franken, that he was intentionally engaging in offensive behavior, or that his offensive behavior continued after it was brought to his attention.
I'm not specifically interested in how he behaved as a comedian - but I AM interested in how he responds when confronted about engaging in bad behavior, even if it was similar to the bad behavior others routinely engaged in at the time. So far, his response is appropriate.
Both sides DO do it. Franken and Clinton are two examples on our side. What matters, from my perspective is how they respond when called on it.
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He apologized for the sight gag. But have it your way. This place is like Burger King. n/t
rzemanfl
Nov 2017
#276
Zero tolerance positions indicate a decided lack in critical thinking skills and judgment.
Pacifist Patriot
Nov 2017
#185
Yes, I checked her Twitter, and she posted a lot about how sickening Roy Moore and Trump are.
L. Coyote
Nov 2017
#122
lol sure if the accuser was a regular on Maddow who pushed the Cruz's father shot Kennedy theory
grantcart
Nov 2017
#74
Except Franken isn't family values, religious liberty (for Christians only)
TexasBushwhacker
Nov 2017
#77
Bullshit. People are a sum of their parts. Franken has been a huge ally to women.
PeaceNikki
Nov 2017
#196
So you really think a woman sleeping close to a comedian should be prepared for that to happen? n/t
USALiberal
Nov 2017
#247
Are you saying the photo was a fake. Or just think it was OK to do that? n/t
USALiberal
Nov 2017
#245
Bullshit that we would not rip a GOPer who did this to a sleeping woman? LOL, ok.
USALiberal
Nov 2017
#246
Thanks you. I've been struggling with this all day and you helped me be ok with being clear. n/t
CincyDem
Nov 2017
#43
I agree with every word. And I am mad that Franken even asked for this to be investigated.
SweetieD
Nov 2017
#62
Well this is how politics works right? Eventually even the worst behaviors have to be justified.
MadDAsHell
Nov 2017
#82
Thank you so much for that, for me you're not "unpopular" but more revered than before I read this..
George II
Nov 2017
#91
Sure, but the pic still shows sexual exploitation in the form of comedy.. still a bit offensive
vkkv
Nov 2017
#95
playboy bunnies on USO tours paid or not? Do they expect to be admired for their minds on tour?
Sunlei
Nov 2017
#240
difference between what? an on stage comedy show for adult military people & Moore- pedophile or
Sunlei
Nov 2017
#271
And I'd bet money that you'd be the disappointed one that the former bunny didn't
vkkv
Nov 2017
#262
WTF? What "you said" was intended as an attack on what you thought was my stupidity.
vkkv
Nov 2017
#260
You're not unpopular with me, and 2 of the many reasons are because of these 2 statements below ....
LenaBaby61
Nov 2017
#108
I think Al should offer to resign: "You want me to resign? I'll resign when Donald Trump resigns."
NBachers
Nov 2017
#111
That what Sen Franken has done can be compared to Roy Moore's degeneracy is monstrous.
marble falls
Nov 2017
#120
What is really scandalous here is the wingnuts pull this shit off to lay cover for Pussy Grabber
L. Coyote
Nov 2017
#121
This is a blatant and quite frankly pathetic attempt to play "both sides do it!".
Initech
Nov 2017
#124
Are you kidding me? Of COURSE a joke picture (admittedly, in EXTREMELY poor taste) is EXACTLY
Grown2Hate
Nov 2017
#165
rec & IMO Al ASKS for ethics review, will place the PEDO(s) & attackers of woman
Sunlei
Nov 2017
#238
Based on what Al Franken himself admits, it was inappropriate, but not because it was sexual
still_one
Nov 2017
#256
USO tour Robin Williams & Al Franken playing Saddam Hussian, Xmas 2003. Camp Arifjan, Kuwait.
Sunlei
Nov 2017
#277
It was a bad joke in poor taste and he deserves no credit for making it.
Pope George Ringo II
Nov 2017
#281
You did not have my permission to just waltz into my brain a borrow my thoughts!!!!
Brother Buzz
Nov 2017
#295