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progree

(10,929 posts)
29. I've added discussion of what the numbers mean to my post #15
Fri Jul 3, 2015, 09:48 AM
Jul 2015

Last edited Sat Jul 4, 2015, 11:36 PM - Edit history (3)

Quite a few not so good (or bad) numbers from the Household Survey. Remember most of the statistics in the Household Survey are very volatile from month to month. So it's important to look at the past 12 months figures (which are included) before deciding how the economy is doing lately.... Looking at the past 12 months smooths out most of the month-to-month volatility.

As an example of the month to month volatility, consider the month-to-month changes in the Household Survey's count of the Employed over the last 2 1/2 years:
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS12000000
[font face = "courier new"]
Thousands of employed, change from the previous month:
2013: 48 101 -55 291 225 135 250 13 9 -844 1037 181
2014: 535 95 495 -72 144 379 154 50 156 653 71 111
2015: 759 96 34 192 272 -56
January and February numbers are affected by changes in population controls.[/font]

And these are seasonally adjusted numbers! The unadjusted numbers are even more rocky.

This is far more volatile than the much more reliable Establishment Survey that produces the payroll employment:
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CES0000000001
[font face = "courier new"]
Thousands of payroll employees, change from the previous month:
2013: 205 314 115 187 219 127 164 256 150 225 317 109
2014: 166 188 225 330 236 286 249 213 250 221 423 329
2015: 201 266 119 187 254 223
The last 2 months are preliminary[/font]


Even worse than the Household Survey's Employed, the Household Survey's Labor Force has even more volatility. Here is the month-to-month changes in the Household Survey's Labor Force over the last 2 1/2 years:
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11000000
[font face = "courier new"]
Labor Force, thousands, change from the previous month:
2013: 272 -429 -370 375 161 199 -129 -103 19 -933 689 -257
2014: 439 202 492 -760 209 71 348 -30 -173 398 159 -273
2015: 1051 -178 -96 166 397 -432
January and February numbers are affected by changes in population controls.[/font]

On statistical noise, I found this BLS technical note on sampling error -- http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.tn.htm . Based on what it says, there is a 90% probability that the payroll employment increase is within +/- 90,000 jobs of the stated number. And a 10% chance that it is off by more than 90,000.

And in the Household Survey, there is a 90% chance that the monthly unemployment change is +/- 300,000 of the stated number (note this is 3.3 times the payroll employment's sampling error). Also, that there is a 90% chance that the unemployment rate is about +/- 0.2% of the stated number.

The above only covers sampling error. There are also many other sources of error (search the above link for "non-sampling error&quot

The individual components that go into these numbers have an even larger sampling error.

Right-wingers love to find the aberrant statistic or two of the month in these wildly volatile data series and make it out to be the story of the Obama administration, rather than what it really is -- just one month's number in a very statistically volatile data series.

Sure didn't expect a BLS report until next week BumRushDaShow Jul 2015 #1
a big old Kick, for good news!!!! n/t Stellar Jul 2015 #2
I hate it the way Obamacare is killing jobs. Oh, wait.... yellowcanine Jul 2015 #3
How will the repukes frame this? CTyankee Jul 2015 #4
They won't. They will change the subject to something like religious freedom, etc. yellowcanine Jul 2015 #5
Same as doomers here surely will; by "forgetting" that the LFPR is mostly driven by aging boomers whatthehey Jul 2015 #6
And U4 is 5.8, meaning one half of one percent of the workforce is discouraged Recursion Jul 2015 #8
A labor participation rate of 62%. former9thward Jul 2015 #18
Older population than 1977, with more youth in college Recursion Jul 2015 #19
Nice try. former9thward Jul 2015 #20
People who don't want to be retired are counted as "discouraged" Recursion Jul 2015 #21
No, there are people who have gone on early SS. former9thward Jul 2015 #22
Doesn't matter. If you would accept a job but aren't looking, you're "discouraged" (U4) Recursion Jul 2015 #23
My experience is that most early retirees are very ready to go. yellowcanine Jul 2015 #31
There is no generous offer. former9thward Jul 2015 #32
So what's your plan? Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #33
I don't run the economy. former9thward Jul 2015 #36
Having a bad day with this great news? Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #34
Great news? former9thward Jul 2015 #35
The establishment report (payroll jobs) was pretty good progree Jul 2015 #38
Thank you for your analysis, progree. mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2015 #39
Free trade deals are also killing jobs....oh, wait...... Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #7
maybe that is why joe scarborough is hiding out just now...waiting for the good news to blow over... CTyankee Jul 2015 #9
432,000 left the labor force. former9thward Jul 2015 #17
See post #12. Sky is not falling, it is much brighter and clearer. Remember the economy in 2009? Some do. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #26
Obama is a Communist and a Muslin. Kingofalldems Jul 2015 #10
Still more jobs created? I blame Obama. n/t SpankMe Jul 2015 #11
The June Jobs Report in 10 Charts mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2015 #12
But the population has increased by millions of people in that time MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #28
More charts, and the BLS-Labor Statistics Twitter feed mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2015 #13
Lots of non living wage jobs out there project_bluebook Jul 2015 #14
Manufacturing output is larger than at any point at US history to date Recursion Jul 2015 #24
The last month, last 12 months, and since Feb. 2010 - On edit: discussion added progree Jul 2015 #15
A record 93,626,000 Americans 16 or older did not participate in the labor force. candelista Jul 2015 #16
A record 45 million of them were over 65 Recursion Jul 2015 #25
Some folks just do not make the pay grade in understanding demographics. 5.3% don't lie. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #27
Thanks for your calming spiritual input, O sword of Ramakrishna! :) candelista Jul 2015 #30
Vivekenanda considered economic modernization his most important mission Recursion Jul 2015 #37
I've added discussion of what the numbers mean to my post #15 progree Jul 2015 #29
June jobless rates down in 21 states, up in 12; payroll jobs up in 31 states, down in 17 mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2015 #40
Here's a way to get access to the Barron's article (and thanks for my Saturday evening entertainment progree Jul 2015 #41
About those Clinton era changes to BLS statistics... progree Jul 2015 #42
Shadowstats: Number of People with Full-Time Employment Dropped by 349,000 brentspeak Jul 2015 #43
Ahh, the cherry-picked bad statistics of the month from the ultra-high-volatility Household Survey progree Jul 2015 #44
If you're going to resort to cheap shots brentspeak Jul 2015 #45
Talking of cheap shots, wow. What about misleading your fellow progressives? progree Jul 2015 #46
Funny how no one but the White House brentspeak Jul 2015 #48
Uhh, those are BLS statistics (the same as your articles cite), not "White House" statistics progree Jul 2015 #49
"everyone else's motivation is simply to make Obama look bad" progree Jul 2015 #50
Just to repeat the last question from #44 that you ignored in your #45 reply- progree Jul 2015 #47
Brookings Institute: Unemployment projected to drop to 5.2% in July and reach 4.5% by December mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2015 #51
U.S. Wage Growth Falls to Record-Slow Pace in 2nd Quarter Andrej28 Jul 2015 #52
And is up 2.0% over the past 12 months while inflation up only 0.2% progree Jul 2015 #53
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