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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
13. No, Federal Law bans anyone convicted of a Felony of Violence to own a firearm
Fri Mar 22, 2013, 09:43 AM
Mar 2013

Last edited Fri Mar 22, 2013, 02:19 PM - Edit history (2)

The problem is what is a Felony? As that word is used in the Federal Gun Control Act of 1968? The Courts have been all over the place on this, but generally a Common Law Felony is included, but some of Felonies created by Statute are not. For example, it was NOT a felony at common law to commit Security Fraud, but many states have made that a felony. A Federal Court could rule that such a felony is not a felony as the word Felony is used in the Gun Control Act of 1968. Thus such a felon could own a firearm (please note I have NOT checked out the exact status of Security Fraud laws, so before anyone convicted of such a crime buys a firearm check with an attorney who practices in that field of law).

Now, a state can also pass a Gun Control Law forbidding Felons from owning guns, even if they are NOT Felons, as the term Felon is used in the Federal Gun Control Act. This is the type of Felons the State Judge is ruling on, someone who is NOT barred by Federal Law, but is Barred by State Law, due to the differences is treatment of the term Felon and Felony.

Under the Common Law a Felon was someone who lost his property to his Misne Lord, a Misdemeanor was someone who did not (i.e. his or her heir kept it). In the 1800s the definitions changed (along with abolishment of forfeiture) to whether you stayed in jail for one year or less (then a Misdemeanor) or more then one year (then a Felony). Since 1900, this divide has blurred, they are misdemeanors that you can served several years in jail for, and some felons get off with a suspended sentence. The names are retains more due to historical reasons then any real difference in treatment (State's have preferred to give set jail periods for individual crimes as oppose to a set time for "Felonies" and another time of "Misdemeanors".

Personally, I believe we should do as Britain has done, abolish these terms, they are becoming more and more meaningless. Force each level of Government to clearly declare WHAT Crimes, if you are convicted of that crime, BANS you from owning a Firearm, not use these old terms that most people (including Lawyers) do NOT know what they mean (and due to that fact becoming meaningless terms).

Side note: Under the Common Law, if someone was convicted of a Felony, the King received his or her property for his own use for one year, then it went to the Felon's Misne Lord (which in most of England was the King, but not always). Treason, which today is considered a Felony, was NOT a Felony under the Common Law, it was TREASON, a separate class of crimes, where the property of the Traitor was forfeit permanently to the King NOT his Misne lord. THis last came up in 1715 in Boston Massachusetts. A wife and her servant conspired to kill her husband. Under the Common Law that could be Murder but also could be the crime of "petit Treason" (Thus the term "High Treason" for Treason against the State). The sentence was the same for both, death, but what happened to the property of the defendant differed and who obtain her property on her execution was why this woman was tried to for the crime of "Petit Treason" not the "Felony" of murder. The Governor of Massachusetts in 1715 was an appointee of the King, and thus upon conviction of Treason (High or Petit) the property of the Defendant reverted to him as the King's agent. If convicted of the "Felony" of Murder, the property went to the Governor for one year, then it reverted to the Colonial Legislature of Massachusetts, which under its Colonial Charter was the "Misne Lord" of Massachusetts. Thus the Governor wanted the Treason Charge NOT the Felony of Murder Charge against these Murderers. i.e. Thus the Governor NOT the Colonial Legislature received the property of the murderers.

In the 1800s most States abolished "Petit Treason" and merged in with Murder since Independence made each state both the "King" and the "Misne Lord" for that state (no matter what charge, the state still obtained the money), then the State abolished forfeiture for most murderers did NOT have any money to forfeit.

The abolition of Forfeiture upon conviction lead to the problem of Children inheriting from their parents, when their murder their parents. Under the Common Law, upon conviction the murder's property, including the property inherited, went to the State for it was both the "Crown" and the "Misne Lord" of all the real property in the State (and while held for Trial, the Court had full use of the Property, not the Defendant). Thus the right that a Child could inherit from a parent their had murdered was NOT a problem under the Common Law (The State ended up with the money upon conviction). It became a problem when the State redefined Murder and the sentence and removed forfeiture as a feature of the law. You then had a situation where Murders could inherit from people their murdered and keep the property. Thus the various State Laws forbidding such inheritance (which leads to another problem, what happens if the person DOES inherit, gives the property BACK to the murders, by direct gift OR by another inheritance? This has occurred, in the trial of Lyle and Erik Menendez case in California saw that happened, the two sons who murdered their parents ended up getting the money via their parent's sister, who gave them the money to pay for their defense. I am sorry, the Common Law Rule was better i.e. leave the murders inherit the property, but upon conviction it becomes the property of the State (and during any trial, held by the State until the trial is over).

While I believe I have shown the Common Law Rule was better, the Rule in the US is conviction of a Felony does NOT bring with it a Forfeiture in the US today, unless there is a separate forfeiture law. Drugs cases tend to have such forfeiture laws, but most crimes do no t. On the hand prior to the mid 1800s and the general rewrite of the Common LAw, forfeiture was the biggest difference between Felonies and Misdemeanors.

But felons can be denied their fundamental right to vote... SunSeeker Mar 2013 #1
It's the one man, one gun principle. LuvNewcastle Mar 2013 #4
I asked that question in another thread. FarPoint Mar 2013 #6
Here's a site that documents the differences among state laws regard felons and voting slackmaster Mar 2013 #17
They can in Louisiana, after they've served their sentence, hughee99 Mar 2013 #20
But they get their guns before they serve parole & probation. SunSeeker Mar 2013 #30
Can't help but love it. David__77 Mar 2013 #2
Title 18, United States Code, Section 922(g)(1). makes it a felony when involved in AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #3
Wouldn't it require being convicted a federal crime for the feds to have jurisdiction? Xipe Totec Mar 2013 #8
No, Federal Law bans anyone convicted of a Felony of Violence to own a firearm happyslug Mar 2013 #13
I've seen people convicted of a class D felony in VA for check fraud AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #19
18 USC § 921(a)(20) defines who is a "Felon" under Federal LAw happyslug Mar 2013 #32
*facepalm* sakabatou Mar 2013 #5
I cant'stop laughing. Xipe Totec Mar 2013 #7
we passed a new constitutional amendment last year requiring "strict scrutiny" of gun laws ramparta Mar 2013 #9
WTF are we about! lonestarnot Mar 2013 #10
The ruling makes sense when you go to the Times-Picayune link Lurks Often Mar 2013 #11
Well this sucks! Take the guns out of the hands of felons now! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #12
Do you even know what a felon is? Comatose Sphagetti Mar 2013 #15
Actually I do know quite a bit about the law. Yes. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #22
Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #28
I do not have a criminal record of any kind .. if that is what you are implying! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #29
I do and I still support barring them from firearms ownership. Chan790 Mar 2013 #34
Actually, only two states have life long voting prohibitions for felons Rhiannon12866 Mar 2013 #37
so somebody arrested for possessing a gram of coke when they are 19 shouldn't be allowed to vote Douglas Carpenter Mar 2013 #38
Are felons and ex-felons allowed to vote in LA? ... EC Mar 2013 #14
If in Prison on Parole or Probation, can not vote, but once off Parole AND Probation can vote. happyslug Mar 2013 #35
Louisiana felons get the right to vote restored after their parole and probation is complete slackmaster Mar 2013 #16
But they get their guns before they serve parole and probation? nt SunSeeker Mar 2013 #18
I agree that's not right slackmaster Mar 2013 #26
No One Who Voted For Palin Should Be Entrusted With Anything More Lethal Than A Q-Tip. (nt) Paladin Mar 2013 #21
Given that Louisiana felons are overwhelmingly members of minorities that vote Democratic... slackmaster Mar 2013 #25
The world would be a safer place. The Wielding Truth Mar 2013 #27
gun owning is more fundamental a right than voting? La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #23
Look, you can't shoot suspicious-looking characters in the back on your neighbor's lawn with a vote. IveWornAHundredPants Mar 2013 #24
Well, you have to be a US citizen to vote, but not to own a gun. hughee99 Mar 2013 #31
Hahahahahaha!!111 jpak Mar 2013 #33
In NYC, you can get your gun license taken away with a speeding ticket Ter Mar 2013 #36
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