Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
I don't feel so good LiberalElite Jul 2013 #1
Neither do I - it is a sad day for America - and its lost sense of justice. laserhaas Jul 2013 #191
Total bullshit!!! jessie04 Jul 2013 #2
disappointing NewJeffCT Jul 2013 #3
I predicted this Travis_0004 Jul 2013 #4
I think a lot of us had a sick feeling it would happen. Kennah Jul 2013 #45
it was an all white jury PatrynXX Jul 2013 #71
All female, including, if I recall, 5 mothers. OnlinePoker Jul 2013 #79
It was a predominantly white jury meow2u3 Jul 2013 #80
From what I understand ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #291
I hope the media accosts those women and gives them a difficult next few weeks. Kablooie Jul 2013 #200
No, we really don't want that davidpdx Jul 2013 #265
People were John2 Jul 2013 #297
Members of the OJ jury spoke up and explained their verdict. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #330
I totally agree davidpdx Jul 2013 #331
Who gives a shit BigD_95 Jul 2013 #207
The media called him White Hispanic. ChazII Jul 2013 #210
"Why is everything about race.." Carolina Jul 2013 #285
I don't John2 Jul 2013 #299
Because this country ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #293
George Zimmerman made it about race when he decided to follow Trayvon. Flatulo Jul 2013 #321
Sad n/t joesdaughter Jul 2013 #5
This is going to get ugly around here. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #6
That is so fucked up gopiscrap Jul 2013 #7
Open season on unarmed pedestrians Marthe48 Jul 2013 #8
how? Niceguy1 Jul 2013 #34
If you walk on a sidewalk, you are a potential threat to someone. nt killbotfactory Jul 2013 #42
only Niceguy1 Jul 2013 #51
He just got away with murder Marthe48 Jul 2013 #77
+1. "The people who are ok with this verdict don't much care about the law..' blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #178
A travesty--but not surprised given the trial. book_worm Jul 2013 #9
Was the jury intellectually handicapped? WTF is wrong with them? nt valerief Jul 2013 #10
The prosecution was. Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #17
Certainly not a jury "of their peers" - either for the victim or the perpetrator George II Jul 2013 #78
Reasonable doubt Shrek Jul 2013 #121
no, he is guilty Skittles Jul 2013 #11
Very sad, MuseRider Jul 2013 #12
A loss for America. B Stieg Jul 2013 #13
I feel so angry right now AgingAmerican Jul 2013 #14
shit heaven05 Jul 2013 #15
Verdict SamKnause Jul 2013 #16
Wonder what is going on outside the courthouse now? n/t ReRe Jul 2013 #18
Just showed a few people chanting "No justice, no peace." nt Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #32
I didn't agree with the verdict... ReRe Jul 2013 #204
About the points you made... truth2power Jul 2013 #302
How in God's name they could have found him not guilty of manslaughter truth2power Jul 2013 #19
For the same reason they couldn't find Casey Anthony guilty of parental neglect NotThisTime Jul 2013 #27
I don't remember enough of the details of Casey Anthony to compare, but maybe you're truth2power Jul 2013 #52
Prosecutorial incompetence. n/t ET Awful Jul 2013 #64
I do not mean this to be a snark, but you must have been watching truth2power Jul 2013 #89
In both this and the Anthony case, had the prosecution better prepared and presented ET Awful Jul 2013 #142
Not the same thing. duffyduff Jul 2013 #197
I was thinking that too. I bet just like OJ he'll get himself into trouble raccoon Jul 2013 #30
The prosecutors apparently had a different approach to the evidence that we did. AngryOldDem Jul 2013 #112
I can't say it any better than you did. truth2power Jul 2013 #134
This is (among) the problems... Jeff In Milwaukee Jul 2013 #336
I'm UK - extremely hard for me to understand too. dipsydoodle Jul 2013 #272
why is it I thought it would AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #20
Because, unfortunately... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #47
The legal system is a complete sham in this Country, how many sham trials is Florida going to have NotThisTime Jul 2013 #21
fuck fuck FUCK MirrorAshes Jul 2013 #22
I am truly ashamed of a part of America BlueJazz Jul 2013 #23
just got away with murder rurallib Jul 2013 #24
^^^THIS^^^ valerief Jul 2013 #35
Yep Carolina Jul 2013 #133
I'm a little surprised they didn't rule for manslaughter Common Sense Party Jul 2013 #25
I'm very surprised. complain jane Jul 2013 #148
6 female jury, I never imagined that would be the verdict. ileus Jul 2013 #26
I figured at least a hung jury. nt awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #50
My hope was that women could be more compassionate and thoughtful too. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #56
That was my thoughts exactly. ileus Jul 2013 #63
This press conference is a joke and very insensitive. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #84
Who is the awful garish woman grandstanding, smiling and conducting this press conference? avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #105
I believe you were seeing the State's Attorney from the 4th District. She and her team are still 24601 Jul 2013 #158
The Whole Culture Of The South Is Different DallasNE Jul 2013 #163
I found Jesse Jackson's comment very insightful marshall Jul 2013 #295
Oh my god MissDeeds Jul 2013 #28
The quality of justice is extremely poor in Florida. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #29
Just look at the criminal governor. nt valerief Jul 2013 #38
Yes. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #61
Sorry, that's "The fish rots from the head." Igel Jul 2013 #245
Gee, thanks for clearing that up tabasco Jul 2013 #287
I'm fairly certain Florida isn't an exception in this country. nt adirondacker Jul 2013 #157
Yep. Remember Casey Anthony? N/t alp227 Jul 2013 #170
I was j u s t thinking about that case. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #173
Lots of reasonable doubt there. The jury was correct in that case. n/t duffyduff Jul 2013 #199
Lots of reasonable doubt here as well lancer78 Jul 2013 #234
just heaven05 Jul 2013 #31
Open season on young black men wearing hoodies OldRedneck Jul 2013 #33
Hunting season is now open on African Americans in Florida. Capt.Rocky300 Jul 2013 #36
not heaven05 Jul 2013 #46
You're right. I stand corrected. Sad Capt.Rocky300 Jul 2013 #66
I heaven05 Jul 2013 #90
Hopefully he will eventually find the real killer oberliner Jul 2013 #37
Just another town where it's not illegal to kill a black person. n/t jtuck004 Jul 2013 #39
Right wing whites win again SCVDem Jul 2013 #40
The fix was in kylie5432 Jul 2013 #41
My heart goes out the Martin family. zonkers Jul 2013 #43
Not a single African-American on the jury oberliner Jul 2013 #44
One of them may have been African American. Pterodactyl Jul 2013 #306
He is far from a free man sorefeet Jul 2013 #48
The feds can step in on a "denial of constitutional rights" basis like they did with the KKK... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #67
Yes, they'll come in with both feet, like they did with Goldman Sachs, right? hatrack Jul 2013 #101
Yeah,...Al Sharpton just started going on about that.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #109
Wait a little while SwankyXomb Jul 2013 #153
Yeah,...we'll see videos of the clowns at FOX "News" gloating with their usual smug superiority.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #164
+1. "They have no shame." blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #185
And now Zimmerman sues NBC: 7962 Jul 2013 #324
I expect his lawyers to sue the NAACP next. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #332
I don't know, NAACP hasnt done what NBC did 7962 Jul 2013 #337
"The whole NBC thing shouldve cost somebody their job" Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #339
Good. Thanks for the update! 7962 Jul 2013 #340
Figured it would be easy to find. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #341
You're not missing much. Endless same-same tract homes surrounded by endless palmettos. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #327
Same went for the Rodney King case after the officers were acquitted in state court. alp227 Jul 2013 #176
Right. It's also how the feds got involved in KKK cases as murder is a state matter. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2013 #180
No Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #273
Exactly Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #282
bullshit. bullshit BULLSHIT pasto76 Jul 2013 #230
If I had one, I'd sell it too. tblue Jul 2013 #49
Sue him for unlawful death. RBInMaine Jul 2013 #53
Florida has immunity from civil and criminal prosecution for self defense Kennah Jul 2013 #72
He should definitely be sued for wrongful death. truth2power Jul 2013 #75
Well they could if this happened in California, but not in Florida. SunSeeker Jul 2013 #107
They've already sued the HOA and settled out of court. nt. premium Jul 2013 #168
What happens when you lose a fist fight ? blkbear Jul 2013 #54
Bad decision imo. nt cstanleytech Jul 2013 #55
Do Not Pass Jail. Go Directly To Fox News. Dear Gaia. Kennah Jul 2013 #57
how disturbing Danmel Jul 2013 #58
I wish I could say this was unexpected but I can not azurnoir Jul 2013 #59
I think he was guilty rpannier Jul 2013 #60
I call upon the Justice Department to indict Zimmerman for a civil rights violation. totodeinhere Jul 2013 #62
I hope the Trayvon's mother and father plan their own civil suit. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #70
They can't jmowreader Jul 2013 #91
Florida forbids civil suits in cases like these? avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #99
Oh I didn't know that. Thanks. But yes I think there are grounds totodeinhere Jul 2013 #100
Assuming the feds want to get involved... jmowreader Jul 2013 #266
Screw Florida laws...there are FEDERAL laws too! George II Jul 2013 #127
I don't think so bossy22 Jul 2013 #235
I'm sure that that will also happen. And Zimmerman's lawyers have probably told him that. Some totodeinhere Jul 2013 #96
Thank GOD for the Civil Rights Act of 1964...this isn't over yet! George II Jul 2013 #125
do you think you could prove this beyond a reasonable doubt? bossy22 Jul 2013 #233
I am not a lawyer but a good Justice Department lawyer might. Yes it totodeinhere Jul 2013 #310
Sad erpowers Jul 2013 #65
Remember BobbyBoring Jul 2013 #68
The Martin's can't civily sue Zimmerman, in FL. premium Jul 2013 #179
They used to say "Only in America", tonight it's "Only in Florida" - disgusting. George II Jul 2013 #69
WTF! Not guilty of manslaughter? What a fucked up system of law we have in this country. nt adirondacker Jul 2013 #73
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #74
go away Carolina Jul 2013 #147
It's the prosecution's fault. Beacool Jul 2013 #76
The jury had the option to convict on manslaughter Shrek Jul 2013 #113
That charge was added at the last minute. Beacool Jul 2013 #162
My understanding is different than what you said. Manslaughter was always on the table as a 24601 Jul 2013 #301
Maybe so, but the perception was that it was M2. Beacool Jul 2013 #315
That would have been awkward & difficult. The Sanford Police Department was recommending the 24601 Jul 2013 #316
Yes, but the prosecutors were experienced enough to have known that M2 would not stick. Beacool Jul 2013 #318
Interesting point. Pterodactyl Jul 2013 #307
A boon for bar fighters! Shadowflash Jul 2013 #81
I am thinking that this is EXACTLY what the jury has said... truth2power Jul 2013 #130
Not exactly. Straw Man Jul 2013 #333
The legal blog talk left gejohnston Jul 2013 #82
Prosecution kissing the jury's ass?? WTF?? michigandem58 Jul 2013 #83
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #85
My sons will never be safe mstinamotorcity2 Jul 2013 #86
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #87
So incredibly stupid. aintitfunny Jul 2013 #88
You know how you all feel right now? Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #92
if they could not get 2nd degree murder littlewolf Jul 2013 #114
I am of the opinion Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #117
1st degree murder is essentially pre-meditated bossy22 Jul 2013 #246
"They always get away" Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #248
huh? bossy22 Jul 2013 #250
Premeditation. Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #251
Exactly. IMHO there was racially-motivated premeditation. kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #328
This is a rallying call. No justice, no peace. appacom Jul 2013 #93
Two words - mbee Jul 2013 #94
+1000. nt raccoon Jul 2013 #110
We have been boycotting Florida since KarenS Jul 2013 #129
Why 2000? 24601 Jul 2013 #286
I think she was referring to the 2000 election theft. eom truth2power Jul 2013 #303
I was wondering it it was that, but posters don't blame Florida. The acceptable DU response is 24601 Jul 2013 #305
i agree Carolina Jul 2013 #151
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #95
Stick it Caretha Jul 2013 #118
So. Vigilante Justice for All! southerncrone Jul 2013 #97
Let the South secede from the Union. blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #189
Being a daughter of the South, I sure don't want to give it up to A..holes! southerncrone Jul 2013 #201
Not surprised. Floriduh has lived up to their rep once again. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Jul 2013 #98
the police told him to stay in his car Botany Jul 2013 #102
It's appropriate you brought this up. The words you suggest are not accurate. The individual 24601 Jul 2013 #292
They'll probably elect him to the state Senate, now. Ken Burch Jul 2013 #103
I see him with his own show on Fox. n/t Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #120
And either way, he'll say "It was part of God's plan". Ken Burch Jul 2013 #175
Book deal, movie residuals PuffedMica Jul 2013 #275
A bad precedent was set tonight. AngryOldDem Jul 2013 #104
The minute the ballistics guy testified - lynne Jul 2013 #106
Agreed. They need to write into law that if you call in and a 911 cstanleytech Jul 2013 #122
you can't do that bossy22 Jul 2013 #240
I believe it would work. cstanleytech Jul 2013 #317
Good point! Pterodactyl Jul 2013 #308
Sad day for justice. DCBob Jul 2013 #108
Understatment. nt cstanleytech Jul 2013 #124
I wish I could say I am surprised. Brigid Jul 2013 #111
Crying shame. Wtf is wrong with Florida!!!!! johnnyrocket Jul 2013 #115
Didn't think I could be shocked anymore damnedifIknow Jul 2013 #116
I hope those mother's never have to lose a child like this, Loki Jul 2013 #119
I guess it's open season on unarmed black teenagers now. Aristus Jul 2013 #123
Tweet with the same feeling.. Cha Jul 2013 #206
Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #126
wow PaulKersey Jul 2013 #136
This is awful. Loryn Jul 2013 #128
REMEMBER THIS WHEN YOU THINK OF THE VERDICT. dawn frenzy adams Jul 2013 #131
Which is why he'll be in the news again. Wait and see. truth2power Jul 2013 #169
Zimmerman walks free after killing a 17 year old unarmed youth golfguru Jul 2013 #132
Ha! dawn frenzy adams Jul 2013 #135
Try getting this type of public trial in China, Russia, Cuba, etc n/t golfguru Jul 2013 #150
Ha. dawn frenzy adams Jul 2013 #257
Everything in North America is about $$$$$$$ golfguru Jul 2013 #259
I am shocked. I hope the Martins take the little tweek to civil court..... marble falls Jul 2013 #137
I believe fl law prevents civil suit. littlewolf Jul 2013 #145
No justice available in Florida. What a state motto. I have a new motto for my own Texas.... marble falls Jul 2013 #152
What about a lawsuit via federal court? Is that possible? cstanleytech Jul 2013 #165
The fix was in.... Dyedinthewoolliberal Jul 2013 #138
O'mara and West talking now (press conference)... truth2power Jul 2013 #139
QUESTION: ARE WE A NATION OF LAWS? drynberg Jul 2013 #140
Very, very disappointed in this! mvd Jul 2013 #141
fuck kinda bullshit is this? fuck florida craigmatic Jul 2013 #143
This Verdict Was Destined By The Rotten Police Work DallasNE Jul 2013 #144
Awful. Cleita Jul 2013 #146
As a Prosecutor of 25 years ... broadcaster75201 Jul 2013 #149
me too ... based upon what I saw littlewolf Jul 2013 #156
"To win a manslaughter conviction, prosecutors had to convince the jury only that Zimmerman killed.. adirondacker Jul 2013 #160
because we don't know who through the first punch bossy22 Jul 2013 #216
So, someone can provoke an altercation with an unarmed individual and shoot him? nt adirondacker Jul 2013 #225
No bossy22 Jul 2013 #231
Thanks for the clarification. I'm still pretty leary of how justice was served here. nt adirondacker Jul 2013 #247
it was technically...not so much in reality bossy22 Jul 2013 #249
Right. Sometimes I think the technicalities of the law in this country are written exactly for this adirondacker Jul 2013 #260
They added that charge at the last minute. Beacool Jul 2013 #171
Really? lancer78 Jul 2013 #238
Go the Carolina Jul 2013 #289
there is no WAY that gun humping paranoid coward approached Martin without displaying his gun Skittles Jul 2013 #334
The NRA should be happy meanit Jul 2013 #154
I don't know.... sofa king Jul 2013 #312
Wow, so now it's so extra easy to kill black folks with no repercussions? Fucking bull shit! boguspotus Jul 2013 #155
O'Mara making me sick Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #159
I think he answered the question correctly. Igel Jul 2013 #252
I think it goes beyond that. Deny and Shred Jul 2013 #283
What if Zimmerman were Hispanic instead of white? marshall Jul 2013 #294
The laws, too few on a jury, lexington filly Jul 2013 #161
sickening. mountain grammy Jul 2013 #166
I wish I could say I was surprised. GoCubsGo Jul 2013 #167
How do you know that they were Teabaggers? Beacool Jul 2013 #172
Mostly because of where the live. GoCubsGo Jul 2013 #187
OK, I lived in FL but I've never been to Sanford. nt Beacool Jul 2013 #209
Get the hell out of FL. blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #174
That is disgusting Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #177
It wasn't 12 Jurors, premium Jul 2013 #186
Thank you for that information Jack Rabbit Jul 2013 #208
So Right, Lack Of Diversity DallasNE Jul 2013 #213
I mostly agree with you, premium Jul 2013 #215
Mostly Agree DallasNE Jul 2013 #224
Good points. premium Jul 2013 #226
It was crap data. Igel Jul 2013 #255
I Made The Assumption The Recording Was Digital DallasNE Jul 2013 #268
Re: voice analysis... Your post and those above are enlightening.. truth2power Jul 2013 #304
Once Z settles the Martin family CIVIL case that money is out the window. alp227 Jul 2013 #192
Not Sure Civil Recourse Is Available In Florida DallasNE Jul 2013 #227
Shiiiiiit...you may be right alp227 Jul 2013 #243
He could have requested immunity but choose not to hack89 Jul 2013 #284
No civil case to settle, he's immune NickB79 Jul 2013 #229
That's It!!!!! I Believe Florida should Be under a provisional federal governor! BlueManFan Jul 2013 #181
the ocean will soon swallow Florida, and it will be forgotten. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #237
Those hillbilly teabag Floridians don't believe in global warming BlueManFan Jul 2013 #319
The verdict makes me inexpressibly sad. Bette Noir Jul 2013 #182
He stalked and murdered SoapBox Jul 2013 #183
bull fucking shit verdict mike dub Jul 2013 #184
Justice prevailed. Vattel Jul 2013 #188
Injustice Prevailed...you are wrong...eom GReedDiamond Jul 2013 #193
Let me guess...white?....middle class?...... ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2013 #211
+1 Puzzledtraveller Jul 2013 #269
Justice didn't prevail Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #274
Prosecutors frk'd this one up BIG TIME! laserhaas Jul 2013 #190
They did Lee-Lee Jul 2013 #277
Its a sad day walkerbait41 Jul 2013 #194
Lets not loose sight of the real villains Alan M Jul 2013 #195
The Law Has A Double Standard DallasNE Jul 2013 #263
So now a mugger can claim self defense in Florida after he shoots a victim. Kablooie Jul 2013 #196
No Alan M Jul 2013 #202
this does not have much to do with SYG laws bossy22 Jul 2013 #228
No. A WHITE mugger can claim self defense after he shoots a BLACK victim. tpsbmam Jul 2013 #221
Anybody can claim whatever they want Alan M Jul 2013 #232
SYG wasn't raised as a defense bossy22 Jul 2013 #236
I agree up to a point Alan M Jul 2013 #256
Yes. No witnesses, so he isn't a mugger. nt onehandle Jul 2013 #241
I really don't know how this has become humbled_opinion Jul 2013 #198
I would hope so Alan M Jul 2013 #205
SYG Wasn't used as a defense bossy22 Jul 2013 #242
Unbelievable felix_numinous Jul 2013 #203
A very sad day....... lucca18 Jul 2013 #212
How could they return this verdict? SammyWinstonJack Jul 2013 #214
because the prosecution could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt bossy22 Jul 2013 #218
Because the police deliberately botched the investigation and then the prosecutors, kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #329
I don't understand how this can happen. It disgusts me. 20score Jul 2013 #217
American idiots now think it's ok to stalk and kill unarmed black kids walking in the neighborhood. lonestarnot Jul 2013 #219
If you are referring to the jury, finding him not guilty and thinking what he did was OK totodeinhere Jul 2013 #311
Un-fucking believable. blackspade Jul 2013 #220
I am super mad shall_not_tell Jul 2013 #222
I can't believe this miked62916 Jul 2013 #223
Saw that coming. Ash_F Jul 2013 #239
The United States of America defacto7 Jul 2013 #244
better blog ThenWhatTheFis Jul 2013 #253
while I severely disagree with the judgement... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #254
Judge also erred nakocal Jul 2013 #258
The animation was only allowed to be used in the defense's closing argument. PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #270
Which meant that Zimmerman could testify without being cross-examined nakocal Jul 2013 #342
I Wonder What The Jury Members Will Say DallasNE Jul 2013 #261
This is sick cosmicone Jul 2013 #271
Proving he did not "reasonably believe" his life was being threatend.. DCBob Jul 2013 #278
Objectively I agree with the verdict pettypace Jul 2013 #262
"congrats"? ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2013 #267
I had a feeling he was going to get off davidpdx Jul 2013 #264
Did the jury know which side introduced the Manslaughter alternative? JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2013 #276
They are not aware who requests the lesser included Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #280
Thanks for the coherent explanation JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2013 #290
maybe the 1 room, 2 man, 9-5pm stamford police dept. will hire George for their night patrol. Sunlei Jul 2013 #279
too bad otherone Jul 2013 #281
I'm not surprised; this is Florida, after all LiberalEsto Jul 2013 #288
geesh, not even a manslaughter conviction wordpix Jul 2013 #296
Too bad. I'm sure many here are very disappointed. Duckwraps Jul 2013 #298
Horrible!! Terrible!!!! Soo sickening!!! NO JUSTICE!!!!!! hue Jul 2013 #300
unlike a lot of america i wasnt riveted by this case rdking647 Jul 2013 #309
This is about race AND GU NS Bragi Jul 2013 #313
Correct. nt onehandle Jul 2013 #314
Jury (of idiots) finds George Zimmerman not guilty Owl Jul 2013 #320
Fuck. Just.... fuck. Initech Jul 2013 #322
Zimmerman Case Proves That Left Was Right on Crime publicdefender76 Jul 2013 #323
what was your DU username? Kali Jul 2013 #325
is this you? Kali Jul 2013 #326
In any other situation FlaGranny Jul 2013 #335
Next he will write a book, sue the Media and then auction off the gun on E-Bay & Retire. olegramps Jul 2013 #338
Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Jury finds George Zimmerm...»Reply #222