Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
30. Wishing up scenarios is one thing. Real life is quite another.
Fri Feb 15, 2013, 12:33 PM
Feb 2013

The power laws of self-organizing systems say that's not the way the world works. Pareto observed that power flows to the powerful few, and the tail of the power law distribution stays long and flat. Realization, awareness, values and beliefs have nothing to do with that - it's a fundamental principle of self-organization.

The whole point of belief systems, from the sanctity of private property to the Protestant work ethic and up to organized religion itself, is that they explain and support the development of society-as-system along the self-organization principles described by Odum and others. They do not control it. We can no more alter those principles by changing our belies than we would be able to jump off a tall building and fly by changing our beliefs.

In the case of social organization and the distribution of power, all that awareness and realization can give us is a clearer understanding of what's going on. Like with gravity, there are some aspects of reality that belief cannot alter, no matter how much we wish it to be so.

In the words of the Serenity Prayer,

"Grant me the courage to change to change the things I can,
The serenity to accept the things I cannot change,'
And the wisdom to know the difference."

There is a lot of reality that doesn't respond or correspond to the last couple of hundred years of egoic humanist self-congratulation. The way societies and civilizations self-organize is a prime example.

Brand is not an authority on this topic kristopher Feb 2013 #1
Of course he's an authority... and he absolutely demolished Jacobsen FBaggins Feb 2013 #9
AGREED!! PamW Feb 2013 #23
I also agree. dumbcat Feb 2013 #43
xkcd... gcomeau Feb 2013 #2
nice phantom power Feb 2013 #3
I'm down for that wtmusic Feb 2013 #5
He is 100% correct dbackjon Feb 2013 #4
No, he isn't. kristopher Feb 2013 #6
I will take your disapproval as a sign I am correct dbackjon Feb 2013 #7
Now that's not fair FBaggins Feb 2013 #12
I like a lot of what Brand has to say, but he's wrong about nuclear. diane in sf Feb 2013 #20
H. T. Odum had something to say about situations like this. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #8
Wouldn't it be great if we could maximize power intake wtmusic Feb 2013 #10
I frankly don't think it's possible. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #11
Energy is available to both of us right now wtmusic Feb 2013 #13
Good questions. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #17
I wanted to thank you for your thoughtful answer wtmusic Feb 2013 #19
One of the most cogent posts I've seen in a long while. Thanks. n/t appal_jack Feb 2013 #21
All of us see the world and try to construct a mental analog, wtmusic Feb 2013 #27
I'll make a strong claim for the simplicity of this framework. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #28
I think that's a bit wonky GG. joshcryer Feb 2013 #14
The global economy is expanding. The world population is still growing. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #15
Yeah, that's the paradox of capitalist development, though. joshcryer Feb 2013 #18
I respectfully disagree. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #22
Capitalism required inequitible development globally. joshcryer Feb 2013 #24
How do you get a scenario where every country grows at the same rate? GliderGuider Feb 2013 #25
Smart primitivists realizing private property is a scam. joshcryer Feb 2013 #29
Wishing up scenarios is one thing. Real life is quite another. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #30
There are examples. See the Aka. joshcryer Feb 2013 #31
Remnant low-energy cultures like the Aka, !Kung, Pirahã and Penan GliderGuider Feb 2013 #32
It's hard for me to see how high energy equates authoritarianism. joshcryer Feb 2013 #33
The issue is energy quality, and work GliderGuider Feb 2013 #34
It sucks to be you? wtmusic Feb 2013 #37
Tell it to the laws of thermodynamics. nt GliderGuider Feb 2013 #38
Thermodynamics says nothing about goals wtmusic Feb 2013 #39
OK, how about "ultimate end state"? GliderGuider Feb 2013 #40
How are you defining "waste"? wtmusic Feb 2013 #41
Waste heat = an increase in system disorder = entropy GliderGuider Feb 2013 #42
By the way, thanks for your comment about language. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #44
"low energy density is the primary hallmark of low energy quality" kristopher Feb 2013 #45
Sorry - it's actually low energy "transformity" that's the hallmark of low quality. GliderGuider Feb 2013 #46
Someone, somewhere, will do it cheaper and dirtier with the same energy sources . . . hatrack Feb 2013 #16
Stewart Brand...hadn't heard that name in a while. HooptieWagon Feb 2013 #26
Stewart Brand is a nutjob that makes money bilking RW nutjobs jpak Feb 2013 #35
Thanks for kick wtmusic Feb 2013 #36
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Environment & Energy»Stewart Brand: Why Enviro...»Reply #30