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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
45. I do not believe anyone should justify suicide bombers no more than
Thu Jan 26, 2012, 02:54 PM
Jan 2012

one should justify or attempt to refer to what Israel is using here, a chemical
as part of their security measure. No more than Israel should be allowed to detain
children with no legal recourse for throwing stones and there are many
more examples that define collective punishment.

27 August 2008
Trapped – collective punishment in Gaza

"The Israeli siege has turned Gaza into a big prison. We cannot leave, not even for medical care or to study abroad, and most of what we need is not available in Gaza. We are not living really; we are barely surviving and the outlook for the future is bleak." – Fathi, a Gaza resident.

With Gaza locked down and cut off from the outside world by a stifling Israeli blockade, 46 peace activists from the world over set sail for Gaza on 22 August to, in their words, “break the siege that Israel has imposed on the civilian population of Gaza…, to express our solidarity with the suffering people of Gaza, and to create a free and regular channel between Gaza and the outside world”.

An Israeli peace activist on board the Free Gaza boats, Professor Jeff Halper, said: “The mission is to break the Israeli siege, an absolutely illegal siege which has plunged a million and a half Palestinians into wretched conditions: imprisoned in their own homes, exposed to extreme military violence, deprived of the basic necessities of life, stripped of their most fundamental human rights and dignity. The siege violates the most fundamental principle of international law: the inadmissibility of harming civilian populations… I cannot stand idly aside… To do so would violate my commitment to human rights”.

The blockade imposed by Israel on the Gaza Strip over a year ago has left the entire population of 1.5 million Palestinians trapped with dwindling resources and an economy in ruins. Some 80 per cent of the population now depend on the trickle of international aid that the Israeli army allows in. This humanitarian crisis is man-made and entirely avoidable.

Even patients in dire need of medical treatment not available in Gaza are often prevented from leaving and scores of them have died. Students who have scholarships in universities abroad are likewise trapped in Gaza, denied the opportunity to build a future.

The Israeli authorities argue that the blockade on Gaza is in response to Palestinian attacks, especially the indiscriminate rockets fired from Gaza at the nearby Israeli town of Sderot. These and other Palestinian attacks killed 25 Israelis in the first half of this year; in the same period Israeli forces killed 400 Palestinians.

However, the Israeli blockade does not target the Palestinian armed groups responsible for attacks – it collectively punishes the entire population of Gaza.

In April 2008, Robert Serry, the UN Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process and Personal Representative of the UN Secretary General, called on Israel to restore fuel supplies to Gaza and allow the passage of humanitarian assistance and commercial supplies.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/feature-stories/trapped-collective-punishment-gaza-20080827


Demolition for Alleged Military Purposes - Collective Punishment

Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention forbids collective punishment and states that a person shall not be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. This article explicitly relates to administrative punishment imposed on persons or groups because of acts that they did not personally commit. Article 50 of the Hague Regulations states a comparable prohibition.

The IDF Spokesperson contended that, "The purpose of these exposing acts is not to punish the Palestinian populations, but rather to provide a solution for a specific and defined security need." In light of the extensive use of the policy and its horrendous consequences for the civilian population, this argument cannot be accepted.

The houses and the orchards destroyed by the soldiers belonged to Palestinians whom even Israel does not contend were involved in any way in attacks on Israeli civilians or security forces. Despite this, these Palestinians lost, as a result of the IDF acts, their homes and livelihood. Furthermore, they were not even given the opportunity to be heard by any official and were not compensated at all for their losses (on this issue, see below). The IDF is likely very aware of these consequences of its policy. Therefore, its argument that it does not seek to punish the Palestinian population is meaningless.

http://www.btselem.org/razing/collective_punishment

Better this, King_David Jan 2012 #1
Collective punishment to include children is a great idea for some. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #2
Isn't a suicide bomb a collective punishment? holdencaufield Jan 2012 #8
Is there anyone in this thread saying suicide bombings are a good idea? Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #12
I do not believe anyone should justify suicide bombers no more than Jefferson23 Jan 2012 #45
You can't blame EVERYBODY in Palestine for that Ken Burch Jan 2012 #3
Why not? nt King_David Jan 2012 #4
Why not blame all Palestinians for that, or why not have an Aussie flag icon? Ken Burch Jan 2012 #7
''Why do you nurture your hatred, when it does you no good? '' King_David Jan 2012 #46
Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #5
No you didn't-I don't think anything remotely like that. Ken Burch Jan 2012 #6
yes you do ken..... pelsar Jan 2012 #9
That wasn't even what I was arguing in my original post Ken Burch Jan 2012 #10
the scanners that make you appear naked? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #13
Every ATTRACTIVE person should be body-scanned... holdencaufield Jan 2012 #15
You could assign soldiers of the appropriate gender to do the scans, if necessary. Ken Burch Jan 2012 #31
knowing palestinian culture... Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #38
so your for collective punishment?......that is what your answer is .... pelsar1 Jan 2012 #39
I've never deserved the condescension you fling at me. Ken Burch Jan 2012 #11
to be fair... Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #16
That's complete nonsense... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #19
No, it's completely true. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #25
Bullshit. That's not what you accused him of... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #29
It's exactly what I accused him of. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #34
No it's not at all... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #51
It's not? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #68
It was made in response to comment that accused Ken of antisemitism azurnoir Jan 2012 #35
huh? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #37
The person I had responded to had accused me of being an antisemite Ken Burch Jan 2012 #32
Well... Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #36
Nope never had a discussion with him.... King_David Jan 2012 #48
perhaps you should read post #4 n/t azurnoir Jan 2012 #57
Post number 4 ? King_David Jan 2012 #67
In another thread, King David said something about how his grandfather had been treated in the 40's Ken Burch Jan 2012 #60
My remarks there Ken Burch Jan 2012 #61
He said all Palestinians SHOULD be blamed for the Netanya massacre Ken Burch Jan 2012 #63
RUBBISH ,I said nothing of the sort, King_David Jan 2012 #66
It was disgusting and ugly to say that Palestinians aren't collectively responsible for Netanya? Ken Burch Jan 2012 #72
Whatever King_David Jan 2012 #84
+1 King_David Jan 2012 #47
Minus eleventy billion n/t Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #52
your not an idiote...just... pelsar1 Jan 2012 #40
no, I don't believe Israelis, as a group are evil Ken Burch Jan 2012 #59
...collective retribution has to stop. holdencaufield Jan 2012 #14
The condoning of collective punishment was aimed at Palestinians, not Jews... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #17
You can't stop one... holdencaufield Jan 2012 #18
Ah, so you do support collective punishment of Palestinians. Thanks... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #20
There haven't been any suicide bombings for ages... holdencaufield Jan 2012 #21
Then why make out they were still happening? Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #22
Seriously? NT holdencaufield Jan 2012 #23
Just reposting exactly what you said n/t Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #24
bombs are still being attempted to smuggle past the checkpoints.... pelsar1 Jan 2012 #41
I wonder how the pro-Palestinians here would instruct Israel to check for bombs... shira Jan 2012 #43
You'd suppose wrong, yet again... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #54
So how should Israel effectively stop terrorists from crossing the border... shira Jan 2012 #62
WTF are you doing back in this thread, pelsar? Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #49
There are some disgusting posts in this thread and they not Pelsar's nt King_David Jan 2012 #53
No idea which ones, but alert on them if you've got a problem... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #55
'Is that clear enough for you ? ' King_David Jan 2012 #56
No, just wanted to make sure you were understanding... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #58
'the success of the walls and checkpoints at stopping the bombs naturally brings down the number ' King_David Jan 2012 #83
Hyperbole? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #26
Not on my part, no... Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #28
I read the thread. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #42
Apparently, security measures at airports are collective punishment as well... shira Jan 2012 #44
Then take it up with the person I was replying to. They're the one who said it n/t Violet_Crumble Jan 2012 #50
And they don't get it as a group Ken Burch Jan 2012 #30
The problem is that... Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #33
Actually, the conflict isn't THAT old, going back only to the early 20th Century. Ken Burch Jan 2012 #64
Right. It is 100 years old. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #65
One of the major reasons for the conflict Ken Burch Jan 2012 #73
Bullshit. Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #76
the difference Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #69
If the occupation reduces resistance, explain Hamas, then? Ken Burch Jan 2012 #74
Explain Hamas? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #75
I didn't simply say "Explain Hamas", and leave it at that. Ken Burch Jan 2012 #77
Ken, terror attacks increased after Oslo in the mid 90's... shira Jan 2012 #78
It was "dissing" to trap Arafat in Ramallah Ken Burch Jan 2012 #79
First, I want you to admit you're wrong about the PA... shira Jan 2012 #80
Why should I? Ken Burch Jan 2012 #81
Because the PLO proved in 2000 they don't want a peaceful 2 state solution... shira Jan 2012 #82
Ken... Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #85
What about all the Gazans who voted in Hamas? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #27
Apartheid Policy gaelic Jan 2012 #70
How does one eyewitness nausea inducing chemicals? Shaktimaan Jan 2012 #71
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