Gun Control & RKBA

Dog Gone at Penigma

(433 posts) Sat Feb 9, 2013, 03:14 PM Feb 2013

Disingenuous Argument (in more simple terms, FALSE argument) [View all]

The text which accompanied the photo I found salient to discussion of gun control restricting certain kinds of more damaging ammunition. I find myself rolling my eyes when someone makes the disingenuous argument postered below.

The .223 cartridge contains significantly more powder than the .22LR cartridge (maximum pressure 24,000 PSI for .22LR; maximum pressure 50,000 PSI for .223). The .223 bullet is a much heavier bullet, travelling at a higher velocity. This means that the .223 bullet has much more energy to deliver on its target.

Upon impact .223 bullets demonstrate a tendency to tumble, increasing the size of the wound channel. The .223 bullet also delivers additional damage due to hydrostatic shock. The .22LR bullet has neither of these qualities.

This pretty much sums up the difference:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/05/03/guest-post-22-lr-vs-223-rem/

49 replies

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Disingenuous Argument (in more simple terms, FALSE argument) [View all] Dog Gone at Penigma Feb 2013 OP

Terminal Ballistics discntnt_irny_srcsm Feb 2013 #1

now compare the .223 and gejohnston Feb 2013 #2

hell compare the .223 to backwoodsbob Feb 2013 #23

Not that I've heard krispos42 Feb 2013 #3

Size of the slug and power of the charge are just a part of the argument. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #4

Is there a .22LR weapon capable of doing that in sustained fire? ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #5

rare, expensive, and Title 2 gejohnston Feb 2013 #8

Those original laser sights were huge. SayWut Feb 2013 #13

That was not what I meant. Buzz Clik Feb 2013 #9

Who makes that argument? I have never seen it made in serious conversation ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2013 #6

me either ... never heard this claim in Any Conversation, serious or otherwise - Not to say that I Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #10

Disingenuous is the argument is that a .223 will make you more dead than .22LR. Clames Feb 2013 #7

ironic post iiibbb Feb 2013 #11

and doubles down by Reccing it Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2013 #22

If its so common a false argument, show a few links to the such arguments. aikoaiko Feb 2013 #12

A "COMMON" Disingenuous Argument? SayWut Feb 2013 #14

Sounds like a strawman argument. ManiacJoe Feb 2013 #15

vague on the hague jimmy the one Feb 2013 #16

expanding ammo gejohnston Feb 2013 #17

leg wound from m16 jimmy the one Feb 2013 #18

As others have said, I doubt anyone has ever seriously claimed that the two rounds petronius Feb 2013 #19

you want examples? examples jimmy the one Feb 2013 #20

Your examples of 'people claiming .22=.223' are of people explicitly not petronius Feb 2013 #21

actually there are more of these kinds of claims than you would expect Dog Gone at Penigma Feb 2013 #25

Not one of those links - as far as I can tell - goes to anyone arguing that petronius Feb 2013 #27

Not specious at all if you know the facts. Clames Feb 2013 #47

since no one I know of... Puha Ekapi Feb 2013 #24

22-250 best turkey round ever. ileus Feb 2013 #26

Disengenuous argument starts with the OP... Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #28

that there are a lot of ignorant voices speaking as expert in the gun control debates Dog Gone at Penigma Feb 2013 #31

And how are you helping by adding your voice to the fray? Clames Feb 2013 #32

I think the visual is a great refutation Dog Gone at Penigma Feb 2013 #36

of a non-issue iiibbb Feb 2013 #37

If you had an argument to refute you might have a point. Clames Feb 2013 #38

see some great examples below, posted by others Dog Gone at Penigma Feb 2013 #41

what lies? gejohnston Feb 2013 #42

Only lies I see are yours and your deliberate dishonesty.... Clames Feb 2013 #43

Speaking of lies. AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #46

More Irony... iiibbb Feb 2013 #33

The instant issue about munitions misses some wider truths... Eleanors38 Feb 2013 #35

Any here on DU, or in the gungeon? AtheistCrusader Feb 2013 #45

A brilliant refutation... Lizzie Poppet Feb 2013 #29

Except that a surprising number of people ARE claiming all .22 cal is essentially the same Dog Gone at Penigma Feb 2013 #30

Anyone claiming they are the same ... are in fact disiginuous or ignorant iiibbb Feb 2013 #34

Can you show us some examples? aikoaiko Feb 2013 #39

like two peas in a ..... in a ... jimmy the one Feb 2013 #40

Not quite. I'd like to see examples of "a .223 is no different than a .22" aikoaiko Feb 2013 #44

You, too, noticed that *no* examples were given by the OP's author friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #49

Then you should have no problem linking to such claims... friendly_iconoclast Feb 2013 #48