Gun Control & RKBA

Clames

(2,038 posts)

18. As it should be.

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:48 AM

Mar 2012

What you advocate is that an individual should have to prove some arbitrary degree of "reasonable". How does one achieve that when say they are attacked by someone who is unarmed yet is still very capable of seriously injuring if not quite killing the person they attacked? That individual could have had very sufficient reason to fear for their life at that instant but how do you prove that when some overzealous DA only sees they shot an unarmed person? Parity of force is one of those nice little concepts for those wanting to speak from some moral high ground and not deal with the dynamics of a defensive situation.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

109 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

My local paper editorial page calls on stand your ground laws to be repealed [View all] alp227 Mar 2012 OP

it does much more gejohnston Mar 2012 #1

I also hope Spike Lee get sued. MicaelS Mar 2012 #2

I've never seen ANYTHING that spike lee has done that is any good. rl6214 Mar 2012 #5

"We expanded the definition of something, and found more of it..." Callisto32 Mar 2012 #11

Much like the definition of autism.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #17

I did enjoy one... discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2012 #3

sounds like it could have been written by some of our anti-gun zealots here. rl6214 Mar 2012 #4

so what's your alternative solution? alp227 Mar 2012 #6

we agree on that gejohnston Mar 2012 #7

"But for Wild West social attitudes?" rl6214 Mar 2012 #38

And nevermind the fact that NYC had a murder rate higher than the "wild west" ever dreamed of. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #39

Basically my category of anyone who uses guns not words in disputes. alp227 Mar 2012 #45

that happens more in your neck of the woods gejohnston Mar 2012 #47

haha Jerry Brown is the GOVERNOR now...i think his KPFA show was from the mid 90s. alp227 Mar 2012 #48

I know he is governor now gejohnston Mar 2012 #57

Read your own posts. They pretty much define it. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #71

The stand your ground removes a duty to retreat when attacked ... spin Mar 2012 #58

there ARE other sources reporting Baxley's position than the nutty newsmax. alp227 Mar 2012 #74

That is a fair point ... spin Mar 2012 #75

That makes you normal and sane. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #70

I think a lot of gun carriers want these laws, and the NRA has been too glad to help enacting them. Hoyt Mar 2012 #9

Is that kinda like if you think you are going to make a stupid statement on the internet rl6214 Mar 2012 #40

Remember these people also recommend you be a victim. ileus Mar 2012 #8

Who would these people be? Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #72

you missed the thread gejohnston Mar 2012 #73

I totally agree with Quander. More guns in a confrontation means more bad. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #79

regardless of what he said gejohnston Mar 2012 #80

Really? I didn't hear that or read that. Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #92

I did not say that he said that gejohnston Mar 2012 #94

Hearing aids come in handy at times Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #95

you know what I mean gejohnston Mar 2012 #96

No, I don't know what you mean Starboard Tack Mar 2012 #103

for one thing gejohnston Mar 2012 #104

Shows the lack of nuance typical of anti's. Callisto32 Mar 2012 #10

What do you think 'creating a rebuttable presumption' COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #15

Your point ignores the narrow applicablity of the statute. Callisto32 Mar 2012 #32

What in the Florida statute tells you that is it COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #44

"and creates" Oneka Mar 2012 #46

You can believe that if you want - my point was that COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #51

In a typical defense Oneka Mar 2012 #52

I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #61

My answers. Oneka Mar 2012 #65

If you have it your way (which is essentially what SYG COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #84

You can characterize it any way you like, however, Oneka Mar 2012 #85

I think your confusing things. In a 'normal murder case' COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #88

Shifting the burden of proof, Oneka Mar 2012 #97

"The fact that the individual who asserts "self defense" COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #98

Indeed. Oneka Mar 2012 #106

Sigh. The statute, counselor, which you apparently did not read. Callisto32 Mar 2012 #100

I read it. You're mixing apples and oranges. COLGATE4 Apr 2012 #109

SYG has little to do with this, and no witnesses has everything to do with it.. pipoman Mar 2012 #12

They can wish in one hand and crap in the other... virginia mountainman Mar 2012 #13

So should we say that everyone not at home has a "duty to retreat" when faced with violent crime? Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #14

You are not 'legally compelled to run away' COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #16

As it should be. Clames Mar 2012 #18

It's not 'what I advocate' - it's what the law was COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #19

It is what you advocate... Clames Mar 2012 #20

I'm an attorney. As such, I'm an Officer of the Court. COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #29

My state is a SYG state... Clames Mar 2012 #37

There should be absolutely No Duty to Retreat in your own home. MicaelS Mar 2012 #21

I don't think we are talking about in your home. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #23

Some States say that's their law. COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #31

Not having immunity from lawsuits gejohnston Mar 2012 #41

I think that's absurd. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #22

You may like to believe that this is 'absurd' COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #25

Not true. Some states allow deadly force in defense of property. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #30

'Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" is COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #43

I disagree. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #54

Let's not get overly dramatic. Not every robbery results in COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #60

But every robbery has that potential. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #62

What experience do you have with shooting people? COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #67

What does this have to do with my comment? Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #78

You're a proponent of 'better safe than sorry'. COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #81

Being armed Oneka Mar 2012 #86

Then you're one of a very few people who behave so. COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #87

If it hits the fan I'll have a range of choices available to me. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #90

Robbery by definition is violent. It is also reported as a violent crime. Glassunion Mar 2012 #76

I never said it was a peaceful transaction between COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #83

Actually, NCVS says that your best chance of not being hurt.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #101

Sometimes complying is a good option. ManiacJoe Apr 2012 #107

The State of Texas allows the use of deadly force MicaelS Mar 2012 #33

You learn something every day. COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #42

Well value... Clames Mar 2012 #49

You're right. It is in the eye of COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #50

And yet many people do set the value of their own life that low. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #56

Do you really think that the guy who goes out to steal COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #59

THEY SHOULD. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #63

That's nothing but wishful thinking. Thieves (and criminals COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #66

according to the Rossi and Wright study gejohnston Mar 2012 #69

This has been disproven. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #77

How would a thief know that the home they were COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #82

Theydon't. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #89

You know, I was almost agreeing COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #91

Here's the cite for that survey.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #102

Thanks - I was too lazy to go find it for him. n/t Atypical Liberal Apr 2012 #108

Obvious answer is "Yes". Clames Mar 2012 #64

Exactly. Everyone sets their own value for their life. Atypical Liberal Mar 2012 #55

Much depends on the legal definition of the word "reasonable" ... spin Mar 2012 #26

The legal definition that applies here is COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #27

Running away from a confrontation is often a good choice ... spin Mar 2012 #24

K&R. Best and most honest answer yet COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #28

Thanks for your support. (n/t) spin Mar 2012 #36

One problem with what you said. Callisto32 Mar 2012 #34

I agree ... spin Mar 2012 #35

They'd probably also like to see the 2A removed. ileus Mar 2012 #53

Give it a break! No one is suggesting that COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #68

Hah. Good one. shadowrider Mar 2012 #93

I'm not "anti-gun". I have owned firearms, both long COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #99

I think requiring a duty to retreat is flawed and I will explain ... spin Mar 2012 #105