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Jim__

(14,139 posts)
42. Marilynne Robinson has written at least a couple of essays on Calvin.
Sun Jan 5, 2014, 04:22 PM
Jan 2014

The 2 I am familiar with are in her book of essays, The Death of Adam. The essays are Marguerite de Navarre and Marguarite de Navarre, part 2. She explains that the titles of the essays are due to the fact that if they were named John Calvin, just about no one in contemporary America would read them. Robinson is an interesting writer in that she always challenges things you are certain about. These 2 essays run for about 55 pages, so this excerpt is just a hint of what she talks about:

...

Finally, those who know anything about Calvinism know that Cauvin asserted and defended a doctrine of election or predestination: we are lost or saved as God wills and our destiny has always been known to him. In this he parts with Chrysostom and embraces Augustine. His position is a consequence of his refusal to allow any limit to the power or knowledge of God or to the efficacy of his grace. Cauvin's apparent isolation with the burden of this thorny doctrine is an artifact of the history of polemic rather than of controversy. His great contemporary and nemesis, Ignatius of Loyola, says in his treatise, Spiritual Exercises, "Whilst it is absolutely true that no man can be saved withouht being predestined and without faith and grace, great care is called for in the way we talk about these matters." Furthermore, he warns, "Nor should we talk so much about grace and with such insistence on it as to give rise to the poisonous view that destroys freedom ... our language and way of speaking should not be such that the value of our activities and the reality of human freedom might be in any way impaired or disregarded, especially in times like these which are full of dangers."

Ignatius was writing for an elite of highly committed men; Cauvin, for anyone who could read him. Cauvin's theology does not permit the esotericism that allows Ignatius to nuance this doctrine by advising "great care" in the manner in which it is discussed, though in the Institutes he also warns that the subject should be approached with caution. Certainly neither Cauvin nor Loyola lived the life of a fatalist, nor does either show the least reluctance to urge others to act decisively. Anomalies must be expected along the conceptual frontiers between the temporal and the eternal. Surely it is not at all Ignatius's purpose in writing to find logical solutions to theological problems - " I will believe that the white object I see is black if that should be the decisiion of the hierarchical church." Nor is it Cauvin's, who does not "contrive a necessity of the perpetual connection and intimately related series of causes, which is contained in nature." He is as committed to the freedom and mystery of God as Ignatius is to the divine authority of the Church. The logical difficulties of their positions matter only if the question is understood in terms both explicitly reject.

...


Later she says with regard to Calvin: And in fact, the more deeply one reads him the more thoroughly his thinking baffles paraphrase.

I don't believe the essays are available online.
Moral detachment in the form of religion Zambero Jan 2014 #1
I tend to think she would be part of the prosperity gospel movement... cbayer Jan 2014 #3
ugh! nt grasswire Jan 2014 #2
My parents have become Calvinist. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #4
I don't know much about this, but the way I read it is that cbayer Jan 2014 #5
Yes, people are chosen before they're even born. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #6
So they know if they've been chosen, but do they know who else has been chosen cbayer Jan 2014 #7
Instead of people achieving their salvation through faith and good works, LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #10
It seems very inside-out to me. cbayer Jan 2014 #11
Predestination means enlightenment Jan 2014 #8
So, even if you are chosen, you still might go to hell? cbayer Jan 2014 #9
Technically, no. enlightenment Jan 2014 #12
Wow, I had no idea that this whole convoluted thing was out there. cbayer Jan 2014 #13
Appreciate the kind words, thank you. :) enlightenment Jan 2014 #16
Colored pastels and buttermilk? cbayer Jan 2014 #18
Picture an eager young enlightenment Jan 2014 #19
OMG, that's hilarious. cbayer Jan 2014 #20
At the very least, that technique should come enlightenment Jan 2014 #21
That sounds a lot like you're saying they are wrong. eomer Jan 2014 #26
Uh, oh! Should I tread carefully? Am I about to be step in the trap, lol? cbayer Jan 2014 #27
That is great, actually. eomer Jan 2014 #30
Nevrr really got into Calvinism. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #14
That does not surprise me, justin. cbayer Jan 2014 #15
I am not into the hell and damnation thing. I believe in a loving God. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #17
Interesting stuff. I've never known much of anything at all about Calvinists. pinto Jan 2014 #22
Terrible. The Calvinist cult is NOT Christianity. Dawson Leery Jan 2014 #23
Why not edhopper Jan 2014 #24
Sure it is. -nt Bradical79 Jan 2014 #52
Is Calvinism proto-atheistic? Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #25
Here is how we were taught predestination: riqster Jan 2014 #28
Problem: some Calvinism says nothing WE do can save us; its only the (random) help from God Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #31
Yes, there are varying sub-sects and variations. riqster Jan 2014 #41
This seems wholly illogical. cbayer Jan 2014 #32
It's a level of perception and a question of abilities. riqster Jan 2014 #34
I often thought I knew what my kids would do, but they sometimes surprised me. cbayer Jan 2014 #36
It depends on a literal interpretation riqster Jan 2014 #37
So, even though god knows what a person is going to do, the person themselves cbayer Jan 2014 #38
Well, the guidance is already there. riqster Jan 2014 #39
That's closer to Arminius than Calvin. Leontius Jan 2014 #50
Unless you ordered their lives so it would happen, created the life where it would happen, etc. Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #44
It depends on how active one thinks God is. riqster Jan 2014 #45
Unless ... Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #46
Except that throughout history, we see countless people that are forced to lie in the beds... trotsky Jan 2014 #47
That is the crux of the Active God question. riqster Jan 2014 #48
Unless God created everything as we are told; including the devil himself. And evil itself. Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #49
But we can choose whether or not to be evil. riqster Jan 2014 #51
Can we? Does conventional theology really hold up? Can we be blamed by God for evil? Is it OUR fault Brettongarcia Jan 2014 #53
So? trotsky Jan 2014 #43
That sounds like my Presby friends okasha Jan 2014 #33
It is a very complex theology that seems simple at the surface. And google snippets are surface. riqster Jan 2014 #35
Just a deeper hole within the world of delusional nonsense on point Jan 2014 #29
Without our choice to seek and accept salvation it has no meaning. Leontius Jan 2014 #40
Marilynne Robinson has written at least a couple of essays on Calvin. Jim__ Jan 2014 #42
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