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15. My 2 cents
Sun Dec 11, 2016, 09:00 AM
Dec 2016

Last edited Sun Dec 11, 2016, 10:35 AM - Edit history (1)

I really don't get it, people. I really do not.

The interference everyone is inferring is irrelevant.
This was dissemination of information for general consumption. We already know that we have a triple problem.
Bad information, rumor-mongering, outright lies being passed unchecked as real. This has been going on since Fox News went on the air. Long before the 'fake news' on the internets.
A public uneducated and unwilling to investigate claims has been a growing problem for decades. Conservatives in the 70's identified an informed public as their enemy and have been attempting to dismantle the education system in the US ever since, and quite successfully. They started by taking over school boards, the textbook approval process and on and on.
The media failing to do its job began with the acceptance of the myth of a 'liberal media' in repsonse to Nixon's resignation. So, conservatives dismantle it, corrupt it, and corporatize it. Been there done that, back in the 80's. Look at the coverage of Bill Clinton's "horrible offences". The media has been a conservative lap-dog for a long time.

Adding in the information the Russians "hacked" and it does not really make any difference. If the elephant is sitting on your head, having a mouse climb on top does not effect anything.


Now as to the issue with the EC. Yes, the original intent for the EC (other than the preservation of slavery, gad how that still infects our entire nation) was to have "wiser heads" in charge of electing the President to prevent a person popular with the public but unfit for office assuming the powers of the position.
It is true that they seem a toothless lot now, totally uninvolved in the process simply rubber-stamping the results. It is also true that various states have attempted to pass state laws to override the constitution and force electors to vote for the winner of their state.
Let's assume, though, that the electors actually did their job. The candidate who won the popular vote, that "person popular with the public" was Clinton. As a large portion of the population, including many on the left, believe that HRC is unfit for office, the EC is doing what the founders intended, preventing an unfit person from assuming the powers even though they won the popular vote.
Reading the origins and constitutional constraints of the EC, it would seem to me that there is nothing in Trump's past to indicate that he would not be able to be President.
I despise the man. I disagree with virtually every word he has spoken. I expect the future to be disasterous and bleak. I believe his followers will turn on him.
But his actions, in particular putting the foxes in charge of the hen-house, are exactly what the Republicans have been doing for 30 years. This is nothing new.
Dismanteling social programs has been the Repubs bread and butter for ages. Nothing new.
Lying to his followers in order to win their vote is so common in elections as to be laughable.
Having no previous policial experience is not either. That phrase is usually 'previous political or military experience' as if having been in the military indicates one is more qualified than is a businessman.

Another thing, and this has bothered me for years. There are many on the left who actually put in physical and mental effort into politics. They write letters, they go to protests, they hold town meetings to educate the public. But the vast majority do not. Oh, they may show up for a "don't invade Iraq" protest, they may donate to a party or candidate, but they are not involved in the brick and mortar, boots on the pavement, type of politics.
Many, not all, but many keep thinking that someone out there is going to save us. If only Bernie won, if only the EC would do their job, if only... As if we are thinking some one person could make that big a difference. They are looking for a savior, a messiah, some mythical populist who can rally the troops and get the job done. Gee, sort of like the Trump voters who think he can bring back jobs.

We should not be looking to the EC to save us, or a mythical 'do-over'.
If you look at polls over the last 50 years that ask people about specific issues, you will see time and again most Americans are liberal in the policies. They don't want war. They want to feed the hungry. They would love free education. They would applaud shutting down the health insurance industry. They would cheer seeing millionaire wall street types being put in prison. They want to preserve the national parks. They want higher wages.
They honestly mostly don't give a crap about abortion, gay marriage, legal pot... They really don't.
We could go on and on. I have believed for a long time that individual Americans are liberal, 80% to 20% is the split.

Look at the gerrymandered-to-death congress talking about privatizing Social Security and Medicare. Those who voted for Trump thinking he would improve their economic situation don't want that. They would oppose this if they understood it. Where is the gigantic movement to organize educational seminars throughout the country to talk to people about these dangerous acts congress is about to do? Where is the call for a massive letter-writing campaign? Where is the organizing of a general strike should congress attempt to harm so many people by these reckless acts? Where is the effort to unite the HRC and DT supporters against these congressional policies? Remember, Trump railed against congress almost as much as he did against HRC.
So where is this?
Oh, right, we are busy criticizing the mental capabilities of Trump's supports, trying to keep him from being elected, looking for a guardian angel to save us, wondering about "identity politics".

The question is how is it that we find ourselves in a situation where all three branches of government are controlled by far FAR right Republicans? How is it that most governers are Republican. Enough state legislatures are totally republican that they could almost (1 short) call for a constitutional convention and rewrite the US Constitution.
From your local dog-catcher right up to the White House. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama aside (neither of whom is an FDR democrat), Republicans control the entire political apparatus of the US.

What the fuck is wrong with us on the left? Yes HRC "won the popular vote". So what? Her presidency would have been less effective that Obama's. She could pick David Duke for the Supreme Court and the Republicans would reject him. Congressional Republicans would do everything in their power to impeach her and that is ALL they would do.

We have the issues. We have the answers. We have no power. And we, and the country, are going to pay a price for that.

Do not talk about the Russian hack, bad as it is, its irrelevant to the situation.
Do not talk about how Trump is unfit, so was Reagan, Bush, Bush so what?
Do not talk the EC saving us from ourselves.

Talk about how we are correct, we have the issues, the US is a liberal country, and the far right is in control of everything - absolutely everything.

Talk about that.

Unless you participate in the majority party in Congress your opinion does not count. gordianot Dec 2016 #1
Maybe a National Strike is in order! putitinD Dec 2016 #11
Note: Baer says he is not a lawyer, constitutional lawyer. longship Dec 2016 #2
I agree with you. It's nice hearing these options coming to light, C Moon Dec 2016 #3
It's a nightmare alright... keep thinkin I'm going to wake up from it, only to encounter another day in hell. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2016 #4
I went through the same nightmare, but I was at the Javits Center. lapucelle Dec 2016 #27
Then there's the fourth option 2naSalit Dec 2016 #8
I deliberately avoided mentioning that one. longship Dec 2016 #9
"Nobody wants that"? Speak for yourself. (nt) Paladin Dec 2016 #16
I stand by my posts here. nt longship Dec 2016 #17
Revolt would be spectacularly unsuccessful Calista241 Dec 2016 #19
3 million more voted for Hillary. libtodeath Dec 2016 #20
So what? Everyone votes for a losing candidate at some point in their lives. Calista241 Dec 2016 #21
I am just saying that we are not outnumbered. libtodeath Dec 2016 #22
Peaceful resistance would be successful, radius777 Dec 2016 #44
I don't. Calista241 Dec 2016 #52
True, it won't stop him from being president radius777 Dec 2016 #57
Robert Baer, unknown to 99 percent of the population onenote Dec 2016 #5
absolutely, but we need all paper ballots, all hand-counted. nt TheFrenchRazor Dec 2016 #6
paper ballots hand counted TWICE, just to make sure EVERY vote is counted correctly. putitinD Dec 2016 #12
You do realize, if Trump is removed.. yuiyoshida Dec 2016 #7
Maybe people should read the Constitution oberliner Dec 2016 #10
You are shackled to a deeply flawed piece of paper. BSdetect Dec 2016 #36
What are you suggesting? oberliner Dec 2016 #37
One which defines the position of president jberryhill Dec 2016 #53
This will never happen TheHak Dec 2016 #13
FFS, do they even teach anything... Kotya Dec 2016 #14
My 2 cents if..fish..had..wings Dec 2016 #15
I enjoyed reading your post. Kotya Dec 2016 #18
I think we should talk about everything EricMaundry Dec 2016 #23
The fact that there is thievery and disenfranchisement should not be ignored either. libtodeath Dec 2016 #24
But some fish do have wings. Welcome to DU #1 poster. ffr Dec 2016 #25
Not sure bot that. Not a typo. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2016 #30
why if..fish..had..wings Dec 2016 #58
Great 1st post! Welcome to DU! JudyM Dec 2016 #63
Awwww!!! Bless your heart! n/t GoCubsGo Dec 2016 #29
I mostly agree. Qutzupalotl Dec 2016 #35
Yes if..fish..had..wings Dec 2016 #59
"Do not talk about the Russian hack, bad as it is..." VOX Dec 2016 #48
I couldnt agree more with your last two paragraphs. jack_krass Dec 2016 #61
Notice the brand-new posters, telling us to back off and just put up with all the current shit. Paladin Dec 2016 #26
I have been seeing a lot of new people trying to calm us down. rzemanfl Dec 2016 #28
Yeah, I have noticed it, as well. GoCubsGo Dec 2016 #31
Notice how some of the "brand new posters"... A Round Tuit Dec 2016 #33
And a very well-deserved goodbye to you---and your cohorts---as well. (nt) Paladin Dec 2016 #42
Yes and a few others saying surrender too. libtodeath Dec 2016 #39
I've noticed. triron Dec 2016 #47
Not my intent if..fish..had..wings Dec 2016 #60
The ball is in the EC's court, and they won't do shit. duffyduff Dec 2016 #32
It's not going to happen BainsBane Dec 2016 #34
Can't they charge Trump with treason or something NoGoodNamesLeft Dec 2016 #38
And where does a pending criminal charge make someone "ineligible to take office"? jberryhill Dec 2016 #54
Is there any provision in the Constitution that would actually allow for a national re-vote? Ken Burch Dec 2016 #40
In the constitution.......? suston96 Dec 2016 #43
As Ace Ventura would say... Ken Burch Dec 2016 #46
He had in mind rebutting the argument onenote Dec 2016 #50
In his mind..... suston96 Dec 2016 #56
No jberryhill Dec 2016 #55
Wasn't there a case in Pennsylvania NewJeffCT Dec 2016 #68
New elections? Sounds like a good idea..... suston96 Dec 2016 #41
Don't forget Comey, he helped the most flamingdem Dec 2016 #45
Baer isn't stupid, he knows the Constitution won't alow a revote. radius777 Dec 2016 #49
Start calling Trump radical noodle Dec 2016 #51
I'm not sure what would be different in a revote kudzu22 Dec 2016 #62
Not alleging vote hacked YET. triron Dec 2016 #64
True kudzu22 Dec 2016 #65
trouble with that triron Dec 2016 #66
"calls grow"? wtf does that even mean? 0rganism Dec 2016 #67
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