2016 Postmortem

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

196. He voted against DOMA in 1996 - he supported marriage equality.

Reply to uponit7771 (Reply #177)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 03:32 PM

Oct 2015

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SLATE: Bernie Sanders Claims He’s a Longtime Champion of Marriage Equality. [View all] MADem Oct 2015 OP

A blog post? Where are the sources for his quotes? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #1

There's video. nt MADem Oct 2015 #5

Where Bernie says he opposed marriage equality? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #6

Listen to him. He favors CIVIL UNIONS, not marriage. And he says it is a states right issue. MADem Oct 2015 #14

Where does he say he opposes same sex marriage? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #15

You mean the one like Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #226

Marriage used to be a state issue. Ask any professor of family law. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #86

....! KoKo Oct 2015 #227

A flashback moment: Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #185

Wow, he really said that? "Then the "marriage" people cry. I say make everyone get "civil marriages" beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #199

Yes, MADem really said that... thesquanderer Oct 2015 #204

He is a he, at least he said he is. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #205

Ah. MADem's profile page says thesquanderer Oct 2015 #207

I don't specify my gender in my profile either. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #209

You will never know because I will never tell--at least not you. Never have, never will. MADem Oct 2015 #237

I don't think Bernie ever opposed SSM jfern Oct 2015 #16

He never did. The blogger is a liar. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #18

Well, that's bullshit and easily disproved. AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #2

Where in that statement does he call for legalizing same-sex marriage? nt pnwmom Oct 2015 #49

Where was the claim made that he called for "legalizing same-sex marriage in that statement"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #52

What part of "Let us abolish all laws which attempt to a particular brand of morality or Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #70

Since in later years he said he supported civil unions, not same sex marriage, pnwmom Oct 2015 #116

When did he say he supported one and not the other? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #120

Yes, the everyday movement of 'practices' in state legislatures does not move in a riversedge Oct 2015 #180

Moving goalposts.. deadlinetony Oct 2015 #197

And another Bernie Sanders myth bites the dust... DanTex Oct 2015 #3

Because a blogger says so? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #4

Yes, I'm sure the video there has been doctored... DanTex Oct 2015 #7

Seriously? He didn't want the feds to be able to override the states who made ssm legal. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #8

LOL. This is getting a little ridiculous. DanTex Oct 2015 #10

For the people who are sick of seeing lgbt rights exploited by HC supporters. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #12

No one is looking at the video where he says, plainly, his objection is that it is MADem Oct 2015 #9

I've looked at it 5 times, he didn't want them to overturn states who legalized ssm. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #11

"I think the whole issue of marriage is a STATE ISSUE." MADem Oct 2015 #17

Where is the part where he said he opposed same sex marriage like the blogger claims? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #21

Civil unions are not marriage equality. Civil unions are a lesser choice, and that is what he said MADem Oct 2015 #23

Point out the exact part of the video where he says he opposes same sex marriage. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #24

I am not going to keep repeating myself, over and over. MADem Oct 2015 #27

You haven't proven your claim yet so I'm going to keep asking for your evidence. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #28

He was asked if he supported *****same sex marriage****** MADem Oct 2015 #39

Where did he say he opposed same sex marriage? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #40

He didn't say he supported it and that's bad enough uponit7771 Oct 2015 #177

He voted against DOMA in 1996 - he supported marriage equality. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #196

NOoooooooo....he has SAID he voted against DOMA because he thought .... wait for it... MADem Oct 2015 #242

Please point out in this transcript where he said he opposes same sex marriage: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #243

He ducked the question. He was asked about equality and he pivoted and failed to answer. MADem Oct 2015 #249

So he never said that he opposed marriage equality and the blogger lied. Good to know! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #250

He was asked if he supported *****same sex marriage****** MADem Oct 2015 #251

Please point out in this transcript where he said he opposes same sex marriage: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #252

I've answered this question, what--four, five times already? Do you think spamming is a substitute MADem Oct 2015 #253

as beam me up scottie can tell you Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #123

I don't think the author of the piece minds his answer either--what he objects to is the MADem Oct 2015 #127

"as recently as 2006, Sanders OPPOSED marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont" beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #131

He did. He said, in 2006, on that video, that he supported CIVIL UNIONS for Vermont. MADem Oct 2015 #132

Where did he say he OPPOSED same sex marriage? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #135

When he answered the question "Do you favor gay marriage" with "I favor civil unions." nt MADem Oct 2015 #138

Where are the words "I oppose same sex marriage"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #139

Ha ha ha! So, if he answers the question "Do you support gay marriage in VT" with the "civil MADem Oct 2015 #141

So that's your fall back? You can't prove your claim and now you're saying it's not enough for me? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #144

This isn't about that video--it's about the one in the OP. nt MADem Oct 2015 #151

Ah, how convenient. You can imply Bernie didn't support ssm but Hillary is off limits? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #152

I am not implying a thing. He was asked a question. He answered it. nt MADem Oct 2015 #154

I think the implication is all of our candidates have "evolved" a bit. Agschmid Oct 2015 #158

Start one if you'd like. I'll be the first to say, flat out, that HRC was slow out of the gate on MADem Oct 2015 #217

That was not the question that Sanders was asked Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #215

Kev, listen to it again. He was running for Senator of VT. The questioner was asking him about MADem Oct 2015 #216

I've played that C-Span segment Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #220

"Do you think that gay people should have the right to get married outside of Massachusetts MADem Oct 2015 #222

I generally agree with you Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #229

Agreed. It is minor--and I think the minor points that the author raises MADem Oct 2015 #230

re: "He replied that he supports civil unions and that is a states right issue. " thesquanderer Oct 2015 #231

He was running for the Senate against a self-funded wealthy Republican MADem Oct 2015 #236

It just can't be done through federal legislation. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #259

Wait a minute--his "position on DOMA" was that "marriage is a STATE issue" -- he MADem Oct 2015 #262

It is the way it is. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #265

Not if you regard it as a human right--like freedom. MADem Oct 2015 #266

If indeed "the state is making one person in our nation 'lesser' than another person" thesquanderer Oct 2015 #268

I see it another way. I think the federal government must speak when it comes to MADem Oct 2015 #269

I'll grant you that that's another legitimate way to look at it. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #270

He was being a politician. And that's fine. He was playing the "art of the possible" MADem Oct 2015 #272

We agree about a lot here. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #280

I see it on both sides. MADem Oct 2015 #281

You've been challenged again. You've come up short again. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #163

Watch the video. LOL at the "big table" attempt at denigration. MADem Oct 2015 #165

Nice try, but no. Come back when you find a blogger who can manage the truth. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #168

I didn't have to "try." And I haven't left so I don't need to "come back." MADem Oct 2015 #169

Why the anger, MADem? DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #170

Tee hee!! MADem Oct 2015 #218

Actually no, he did not say "I favor civil unions" thesquanderer Oct 2015 #186

Marriage equality is not a states' rights issue. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #191

Two things... thesquanderer Oct 2015 #194

That is a very tortured interpretation that flies in the face of the plain meaning of what he said. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #201

I guess we're both seeing tortured interpretations in the other! thesquanderer Oct 2015 #202

2006, not 2000. MADem Oct 2015 #273

Not sure of your point here thesquanderer Oct 2015 #275

If he had been saying that in 2000, before CUs became law in VT MADem Oct 2015 #276

He was merely stating his record. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #279

It still doesn't square well with the question asked, which was about marriage and legislative MADem Oct 2015 #282

Yes, we agree he ducked it. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #283

There is no issue that he supported those things. MADem Oct 2015 #284

It doesn't matter that there was no issue that he supported these things. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #285

No, the overstatement is in the "I was always there, I didn't have to evolve" MADem Oct 2015 #287

I provided an alternate reading for that, in post #278. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #288

p.s. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #289

He was consistent in his view that DOMA was a matter for the states, as well. MADem Oct 2015 #290

Given: He felt that DOMA was a matter for the states. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #291

+1,000! nt MADem Oct 2015 #238

Do three things. MADem Oct 2015 #219

I did your exercise thesquanderer Oct 2015 #228

There is a lot to unpack there....let me hit a few high points. MADem Oct 2015 #254

Yes, we agree he ducked the issue thesquanderer Oct 2015 #261

I have enjoyed our conversation. MADem Oct 2015 #274

You on marriage equality and the States: Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #187

There's a difference between expressing what "the reality" was and expressing a personal view on MADem Oct 2015 #271

Another lie about Bernie Sanders is what bit the dust... MrMickeysMom Oct 2015 #182

BOOM! workinclasszero Oct 2015 #221

Bullshit. Bonobo Oct 2015 #13

He also voted against both DADT and DOMA in the first place jfern Oct 2015 #19

Watch the video. nt MADem Oct 2015 #20

I think that's how Bonobo came to know what's in the video. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #22

Yeah, I urge EVERYONE to watch the video. nt Bonobo Oct 2015 #26

Nothing new there, no smoking gun, no proof of MADem's claim that Bernie opposed ssm. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #29

I was a strong Hillary supporter Puglover Oct 2015 #173

Maybe you should write an OP or three about it! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #203

A video of Abraham Lincoln saying... deadlinetony Oct 2015 #155

EXACTLY-- your words, exactly.... MADem Oct 2015 #25

Did he say "Civil unions--not marriage equality" or are those your words? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #30

He was asked if he supported same sex marriage. He answered that he supports MADem Oct 2015 #41

So he never said what you claim, that he opposed same sex marriage? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #44

Actually, they are. All state recognized marriages are civil unions. Each and every one. Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #51

If you want to parse it down in that manner, you're welcome to so do. MADem Oct 2015 #63

Wow. Just wow. concreteblue Oct 2015 #106

No, I am not. You can go to the link and watch his answer to the question. MADem Oct 2015 #109

Weak sophistry Fairgo Oct 2015 #193

The 'refutation' didn't refute, though. MADem Oct 2015 #224

Exactly. It was a yes or no question. By saying he supports civil unions, his answer was no. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #115

Bingo--that's precisely it. It's de rigeur to not use "negative" language in debates. MADem Oct 2015 #119

Wrong. He never said he supported one over the other. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #122

Yes he did, by asserting he supported civil unions when asked if he supported ssm. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #126

Where did he say he supported one and not the other? I must have missed it. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #130

Why didn't he say YES when asked if he supported ssm? SunSeeker Oct 2015 #136

So you can't prove that claim? Good to know. The op couldn't either. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #137

I did prove the claim, using Sanders' own words. nt SunSeeker Oct 2015 #140

Which words? Where did he say he opposed same sex marriage? The exact words, please. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #142

I already told you in post 126. You may enjoy repeating yourself but I don't. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #146

I must have missed, it. Did he say he opposed same sex marriage? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #147

You did, but you're not going to get anything but cut-and-paste for your efforts! MADem Oct 2015 #255

Yes, like talking to a broken record. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #258

I love Bernie Sanders... one_voice Oct 2015 #195

Except that being for civil unions does not mean you're against gay marriage. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #188

Except that Sanders was not asked if he supported civil unions. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #192

I find it interesting that you cast it as a negative, MADem Scootaloo Oct 2015 #32

I don't "cast it as a negative." I think that, so long as we are going to be MADem Oct 2015 #46

If it's not a negative, then why are you using it as an attack? Scootaloo Oct 2015 #50

I am not "using it as an attack" either. MADem Oct 2015 #69

It's not snark. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #79

I just posted an article by a gay man who writes for SLATE. MADem Oct 2015 #95

And it's Madem coming around the third leg JackInGreen Oct 2015 #31

LMAO beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #34

Real classy. nt MADem Oct 2015 #47

If you don't like the tilt of my shuttlecock JackInGreen Oct 2015 #74

A scatological badminton reference? How quaint. MADem Oct 2015 #78

No revealing is the continual line of dead-horse OPS JackInGreen Oct 2015 #81

Line of OPs? MADem Oct 2015 #84

You do that JackInGreen Oct 2015 #85

I have no idea what you are talking about. Have a nice night. nt MADem Oct 2015 #104

That makes both of us Homey JackInGreen Oct 2015 #108

LOL! n/t bvf Oct 2015 #64

And at the end of the race passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #92

Jury results: merrily Oct 2015 #117

You sure all 4 of them are racing deadlinetony Oct 2015 #198

Not long ago there were quite a few people against same sex marriage. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2015 #33

He was never opposed to same sex marriage, the blogger lied. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #35

Even better Puzzledtraveller Oct 2015 #36

Bernie Sanders said same sex marriage was a states rights issue moobu2 Oct 2015 #42

Changed his position from what to what? Where did he say he opposed ssm? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #43

Bernie Sanders said same sex marriage was a states rights issue. moobu2 Oct 2015 #56

Where did he say he opposed marriage equality? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #59

He said he was for civil unions not full marriage equality back in the day. moobu2 Oct 2015 #67

Where did he say he was not for "full marriage equality"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #68

Bernie fans are going to have to retire that camp weathervane meme workinclasszero Oct 2015 #223

Of COURSE he is--that's in the article, too, that he was ahead of the curve as well. nt MADem Oct 2015 #48

The blogger lied: "Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont" beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #53

According to that Q and A, in 2006, that is an accurate statement. nt MADem Oct 2015 #60

Nope. The blogger lied and your claim that Bernie opposed ssm was false. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #62

We will simply have to disagree on that score. MADem Oct 2015 #65

You made a claim and failed to back it up. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #66

No, that's not accurate. I provided an article for comment, and you became angry at me MADem Oct 2015 #71

You posted "It’s Just Not True." And now you're claiming that I "became angry". beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #72

You have a nice evening, now. MADem Oct 2015 #75

Well if you would have answered me I wouldn't have had to keep asking. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #77

Of course, but if Hillary changes, murielm99 Oct 2015 #80

Except that Bernie didn't "evolve" since he never opposed same sex marriage. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #82

Sanders evolved as the OP notes. Good for him-and good for Clinton. Nothing wrong with evolving riversedge Oct 2015 #171

Indeed. MADem Oct 2015 #87

Because the author lied. He didn't say he thought Bernie opposed ssm, he stated it as fact. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #88

Hmmm. Your source says Bernie was mayor of Burlington in 1990. He was not. In1988 Luminous Animal Oct 2015 #37

Whole lotta fail in that blog. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #38

You're right--he's not "my" source, though--he's Slate's. nt MADem Oct 2015 #58

You brought it here and presented it as fact so it's your source. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #61

You have a nice evening, now! MADem Oct 2015 #73

Haha desperate shit peddling whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #45

Yup... SoapBox Oct 2015 #55

You're free to disregard it as you wish. nt MADem Oct 2015 #57

gets an E for effort azurnoir Oct 2015 #54

Wow! Some campaign teams are becoming really desperate. Betty Karlson Oct 2015 #76

The writer of that piece is "speaking as a gay man," and he's not fond of ANY of the MADem Oct 2015 #83

Ahah - so it's just me disagreeing with the author on what constitutes Betty Karlson Oct 2015 #105

No--the author's beef is re: honesty. He sums it up in the last paragraph. MADem Oct 2015 #107

How many of our staunch allies were advocating equal marriage rights in 1975? Betty Karlson Oct 2015 #111

The video was from 2006. WAY after DOMA. In 2006 equality WAS on the radar. That's why it was MADem Oct 2015 #112

Bernie didn't want the feds to be able to override the states who made ssm legal. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #118

I'm just going to leave this here for the sake of irony: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #89

"It's for the raising for the children for the society..." MrMickeysMom Oct 2015 #183

This is absolute bull shit from a poster blocked from the LGBT group. Fearless Oct 2015 #90

Yes, I was blocked for refusing to throw former President Jimmy Carter under the bus. MADem Oct 2015 #93

No, Jimmy Carter said that it should always be left up to the states. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #94

You were blocked for causing a ruckus in the group. Fearless Oct 2015 #96

I'm "causing a ruckus" because I posted an article by a gay writer about a candidate for POTUS's MADem Oct 2015 #97

I asked why you posted it Fearless Oct 2015 #98

You accused me of "causing a ruckus." MADem Oct 2015 #101

I certainly did not accuse. Fearless Oct 2015 #102

An article that you do not like is not a synonym for "a false article." nt MADem Oct 2015 #103

When it is full of fact-free lies... deadlinetony Oct 2015 #200

Nothing to be sorry for--that article is fact based. I'm not beating a horse, but MADem Oct 2015 #213

unrec for BS. 840high Oct 2015 #91

Hillary supported the Iraq War and Live and Learn Oct 2015 #99

HRC supporters are running scared mentalslavery Oct 2015 #100

Sanders loves him some "states' rights." SunSeeker Oct 2015 #110

Hillary asserted states' rights re: gun control - are you going to compare her to racists too? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #113

Wrong. Hillary did not invoke "states' rights." Sanders repeatedly does. SunSeeker Oct 2015 #128

Those aren't her words? Which part of what she said doesn't assert states' rights? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #134

Seems to be a pattern. ucrdem Oct 2015 #114

I just had this image flash before my eyes LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #121

Are you as tired of seeing women and minorities exploited as I am? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #124

Definitely, it the tactic of someone with no real argument of their own LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #125

He just won't listen, lgbt people have told him so IN THIS THREAD and he refuses to see it. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #129

Thanks for kicking the thread. The gay author of the blog IS right. The video doesn't lie. nt MADem Oct 2015 #143

The blogger lied: "Sanders opposed marriage equality for his adopted home state of Vermont" beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #145

He is not a "blogger" -- he is a SLATE writer who reports on LGBT and Law issues--and his report is MADem Oct 2015 #148

I know what question was asked, I know far more about this than you do apparently. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #149

The video is the video, and the words are the words. nt MADem Oct 2015 #150

His report claims Bernie was Mayor of Burlington in 1990 which he was not. This is one of the few Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #189

Hillary supporters love to parrot every lie the media makes up about Bernie jfern Oct 2015 #133

Yet Another Baseless Bernie Attack cantbeserious Oct 2015 #153

Great Article Gothmog Oct 2015 #156

When you have a video of bernie saying marriage should be only between a man and a woman, get back djean111 Oct 2015 #157

That's not what this thread is about. Why even ask for something like that? MADem Oct 2015 #160

Whatever Bernie said, it was not as bad as Hillary's "marriage is only between a man and a woman" djean111 Oct 2015 #161

That's certainly true. But that's not the point of the article, either. nt MADem Oct 2015 #162

The point of the article is to somehow make it appear that Hillary is better on gay rights than djean111 Oct 2015 #164

Absolutely not--this writer has gone after Clinton too (and plenty of people yelling MADem Oct 2015 #166

Sanders has evolved on gay marriage just like Hillary did. End of story. riversedge Oct 2015 #175

Please provide evidence where Sanders has said: "Marriage is between a man and a woman." Armstead Oct 2015 #176

ah, I do not have to. Evolving does not mean specific words that one has said. It is movement from riversedge Oct 2015 #181

^^THAT^^ MrMickeysMom Oct 2015 #184

Another Catch 22 moving goalposts Armstead Oct 2015 #159

Boom. I'm votin' for Bernie Sanders. #feelinthefuckingBern cherokeeprogressive Oct 2015 #167

And another poster is added to my list of "Don't bother reading his/her crap." (eom) mak3cats Oct 2015 #172

excellent restorefreedom Oct 2015 #174

Hmmm...he evolved on the issue Evergreen Emerald Oct 2015 #178

WOW, this whole thread is like arguing about what the meaning of "is", is tularetom Oct 2015 #179

This message was self-deleted by its author thesquanderer Oct 2015 #190

For everyone who believes this crap here is the transcript: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #206

You should include the question that was asked--that makes a difference. nt MADem Oct 2015 #208

Please point out in that text where he said he opposes same sex marriage. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #210

Put the question that was asked in front of your quote and it's apparent to everyone. MADem Oct 2015 #211

That's what I thought. Aaaaaaaaand we're all done here folks! Nothing to see. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #212

Funny how you refuse to do that. You keep avoiding simply putting the question down ahead of MADem Oct 2015 #214

I think MADem has started to come around. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #232

I'll believe it when he admits that Bernie never said he opposed same sex marriage. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #233

Btw, excellent work in this thread! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #234

Thank you, I very much appreciate that! (n/t) thesquanderer Oct 2015 #264

"Ducking the question" is the same as "Being politically expedient." MADem Oct 2015 #256

I mostly agree. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #263

The full-throated support comes from the "I didn't have to evolve--I was there" remarks he has MADem Oct 2015 #267

"I didn't have to evolve--I was there" is not the exact quote. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #278

There is only one thing I'm more tired of than the 'state's rights' excuse and that is... wyldwolf Oct 2015 #225

Jimmy Carter, Mr. Habitat For Humanity, was named Asshole of the Year for not being "correct" MADem Oct 2015 #239

Please point out in this transcript where he said he opposes same sex marriage: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #240

Read the link at post 242. He DUCKED the question. MADem Oct 2015 #244

So he never said he opposed same sex marriage. Thanks! I suppose you'll be deleting this op? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #246

Show me in that video where he says--in answer to the QUESTION he was asked--that he supports it. MADem Oct 2015 #257

Real strange to see states rights advocacy workinclasszero Oct 2015 #241

State's rights advocacy? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #245

From the OP's post... workinclasszero Oct 2015 #247

The blogger lied. Unless you can point out where Bernie said he opposed marriage equality: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #248

i think what we see being displayed rather starkly is.. DianeK Oct 2015 #286

Who gives a damn what a lying blogger with an agenda said? DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #260

More lies from the group that lies constantly on DU. PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #235

Longer than Hillary would be irrefutable . orpupilofnature57 Oct 2015 #277