Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(116,201 posts)
133. That's a lot to unpack but I'll try.
Mon Feb 17, 2020, 08:16 PM
Feb 2020

First, criticizing and attacking are two very different things. DU's TOS prohibits the kind of attacks that I've been talking about. As to the candidates themselves, DU members are not allowed to post "disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s)." https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice We are also not permitted to post divisive attacks against groups or personal attacks against other members. Such posts will be alerted on and most likely removed. On DU we are policing the behavior of our members. However, we can post critical comments; this is, after all, a political message board. If you consider what you see here to be vitriol you're not getting out much.

What has been happening in the real world and on-line outside of DU (mainly Twitter, but to some extent on Facebook and elsewhere) is something altogether different, and it seems to be almost entirely the work of Sanders supporters. There are many documented instances of Sanders supporters disrupting events IRL, booing and catcalling whenever the name of other candidates (including Warren, but also Biden, Buttigieg, etc.), former candidates (Hillary), and other prominent Democrats (Pelosi, even Obama) are mentioned because apparently these politicians are part of the dreaded "establishment" that they oppose even more than they oppose Trump. What Sanders supporters did at the 2016 DNC convention is very-well documented. On-line, Sanders supporters have been doxxing and harassing posters, who express anything negative about Sanders. If the poster is female the words "bitch" and "c*nt" will often be used. Ask anyone who frequents Twitter and posts something critical about Sanders. This is not made-up. And supporters of other candidates are not doing these things, or if they are, it's not happening often enough for the mainstream media to take notice and publish news articles and editorials about it, as they have re: Sanders' people.

Obviously these are a small minority of the totality of Sanders' support but they are loud and obnoxious and occasionally frightening. Anyone should be able to go online and post a critical remark without fear of personal attacks, doxxing or stalking. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior no matter how strongly someone might feel about the injustices they think Bernie is able to cure. There is no excuse for booing Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg or Amy Klobuchar or Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi, all of whom have devoted their lives to public service and deserve respect for that even if you don't agree with them. I don't think it's unreasonable for someone attending an event who witnesses this kind of behavior to step in and say, "Hey, cut it out!" (at least if they're not afraid of further harassment by the offending person, which could be a problem). Zeal and enthusiasm are not excuses for bullying behavior. I don't get why Sanders' more civilized supporters - the vast majority of them - can't seem to see that the so-called "bros" reflect very poorly on their candidate and on them. Wouldn't that be at least a little incentive to speak up about it and say "Those people do not represent me or the Sanders campaign" instead of trying to justify it by arguing that they are just enthusiastic about Bernie's wonderfulness, or by claiming it doesn't happen?

Bernie and his supporters are not being attacked on DU because it's not allowed. Fair criticism is allowed, and all of the candidates are getting plenty of it in equal measure. Pointing out the reality of some Sanders supporters' bad behavior is not an attack but an observation coupled with the question of why anybody could possibly think it's OK, because it's not.

Aaaand just now, after a couple of guys got into a fight at a Sanders rally:

“He had a problem with the shirt I was wearing,” this man said. “I was recording the event, he walks up and calls me a racist. But I thought, ‘What’s he know about black lives, about discrimination, or, for that matter, the representation of the shirt.'”

Throughout American history, the man continued, “Black people and their ability to own firearms has historically been very restricted. The shirt I got from a conceal-carry class.”

He said he agrees with Sanders on a number of policies but definitely not on gun ownership.

“I think it’s really a sad thing at a Bernie rally, when someone has a difference of opinion, that someone would be treated like that. I thought it really would be a lot more inclusive than that. It’s not a safe place to express differences. I would expect that sort of thing at a Trump rally.”
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/02/17/video-fight-bernie-sanders-rally-denver/

QED.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
Agree Horizens Feb 2020 #1
+1! Cha Feb 2020 #115
It never referred to that until now, with your post Blues Heron Feb 2020 #2
It's always meant that. Codeine Feb 2020 #16
Disagree Blues Heron Feb 2020 #22
Can you support the allegation of redefining particular words with any evidence or data? LanternWaste Feb 2020 #27
Sorry, not a fail. lark Feb 2020 #91
Hey Lark DENVERPOPS Feb 2020 #101
Sorry, what did you mean by "any and all ways we can......."? lark Feb 2020 #107
Not you Lark, DENVERPOPS Feb 2020 #134
Again, I miswrote or you took me wrong. DENVERPOPS Feb 2020 #135
I totally agree with that definition. That's what they have always been. Squinch Feb 2020 #127
Exactly! justie18 Feb 2020 #28
They're not all young. yardwork Feb 2020 #104
I respectfully disagree. cab67 Feb 2020 #167
The whole nickname thing is used as a broad brush though Blues Heron Feb 2020 #170
I've never seen it used to describe all Bernie supporters. cab67 Feb 2020 #171
It's used to tar his entire campaign. Blues Heron Feb 2020 #174
You may be right but it also alienates all Sanders supporters who feel like they are being grouped Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #3
+1,000 n/t MarcA Feb 2020 #14
LOL HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #23
I should have said sexist Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #48
I'm a Bernie Bro Cartoonist Feb 2020 #50
If you voted for Hillary wryter2000 Feb 2020 #54
This! mcar Feb 2020 #58
Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #60
I voted for Hillary I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2020 #89
I voted for Hillary cannabis_flower Feb 2020 #108
+1 mitch96 Feb 2020 #62
Agree I_UndergroundPanther Feb 2020 #87
Racial??? LakeArenal Feb 2020 #31
You are correct, but it won't make a dent. The anti-Sanders/Sanders supporters KPN Feb 2020 #61
No, it's not helpful, but the behavior is atrocious. lark Feb 2020 #94
That's an insultingly false analogy. yardwork Feb 2020 #105
Know what else isn't helpful? cab67 Feb 2020 #169
Has Bernie said anything publicly telling them to stop? gollygee Feb 2020 #4
Here you go Quixote1818 Feb 2020 #8
I'm very glad to see that gollygee Feb 2020 #10
Ahhh... both sides. NurseJackie Feb 2020 #15
Yep. That again... ehrnst Feb 2020 #126
well, maybe this week stopdiggin Feb 2020 #18
Not this week. A year ago. Squinch Feb 2020 #145
Ummm that is not telling them to stop outright though. cstanleytech Feb 2020 #20
February 24, ****2019*** "Both sides" need to stop? ehrnst Feb 2020 #128
Oh look, he's also saying that it may be people 'impersonating his supporters" ehrnst Feb 2020 #129
A year ago. It didnt work too well. Squinch Feb 2020 #143
He has said some things, but only by saying "everyone is doing it and should stop" or something like redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #12
he "floated" this.. Cha Feb 2020 #121
That floats like an air biscuit... NurseJackie Feb 2020 #131
.. Cha Feb 2020 #132
That isn't good enough gollygee Feb 2020 #137
I know.. and yes he does! make it stop. Cha Feb 2020 #138
"It also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds." ehrnst Feb 2020 #139
It doesn't "float". Cha Feb 2020 #140
What I don't understand The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #5
I have wondered this too. redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #11
Very eloquent and reasonable points. Mike 03 Feb 2020 #32
Russian meddling in 2016 included Sogo Feb 2020 #75
How can someone further infiltrate a campaign organization that has MineralMan Feb 2020 #77
Perhaps I didn't express my comment to your precision. Sogo Feb 2020 #79
Or it could be that Bernie defenders on this site see mass hypocrisy. Rilgin Feb 2020 #117
That's a lot to unpack but I'll try. The Velveteen Ocelot Feb 2020 #133
Thank You. Will try to continue with the same civility and with actual substance. Rilgin Feb 2020 #149
Excellent Comment McKim Feb 2020 #165
This deserves its own thread and the response.. juliuswest Feb 2020 #142
Doxxing, threatening, bullying, etc that we radius777 Feb 2020 #150
Did I doxx or Bully you. Have you seen that happen here? Rilgin Feb 2020 #152
It's just Bernie Bros nobuddy Feb 2020 #168
Thank You. Rilgin Feb 2020 #187
False-equivalency/both-siderism. radius777 Feb 2020 #189
Is this definition from the Webster Dictionary or Random House? Rilgin Feb 2020 #190
Yes, I agree. Even a "I don't approve of (specific behavior), don't do it my name." ehrnst Feb 2020 #123
that would be a good start. Cha Feb 2020 #191
I don't use the term "BernieBros." MineralMan Feb 2020 #6
Oh I think it's our business to know why he doesn't condemn them. LakeArenal Feb 2020 #34
Why is probably because he doesn't object to their tactics, MineralMan Feb 2020 #76
I'll never forget his supporters booing Hillary's name after he lost California. He let them go on.. grossproffit Feb 2020 #7
And when they chanted "lock her up!" in Philadelphia at a rally... ehrnst Feb 2020 #130
K&R stonecutter357 Feb 2020 #9
They aren't Democrats. Lunabell Feb 2020 #13
our FDR roots aren't what *some* imagine it is. "Progressives" despised FDR wyldwolf Feb 2020 #24
Most trumpeting his name today couldn't pick him out of a photo lineup if their lives depended on it HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #26
Given that the word "progressive" had a well understood meaning in the 30/40s, denem Feb 2020 #42
would you prefer "far left," "socialists," "further-left liberals?" How about... wyldwolf Feb 2020 #47
the word 'communist' comes to mind denem Feb 2020 #49
not to mine wyldwolf Feb 2020 #52
The communist party and fellow travelers opposed FDR yes? denem Feb 2020 #57
is "fellow travelers" your 'out' phrase? wyldwolf Feb 2020 #64
Oh come on - 'fellow travelers' is also a well understood term denem Feb 2020 #68
sure, and none I listed would fit under that term... wyldwolf Feb 2020 #70
Huey Long "Share the Wealth" fits. denem Feb 2020 #74
Conservatives called it communism, communists disagreed. wyldwolf Feb 2020 #78
Few of the figures you list fit the bill as 'the far-left who despised FDR'. denem Feb 2020 #85
dueling quotes: wyldwolf Feb 2020 #99
This message was self-deleted by its author denem Feb 2020 #109
Internment camps? HarlanPepper Feb 2020 #25
Reductio ad absurdum. LanternWaste Feb 2020 #30
Move it to beat trump. Not other candidates or their supporters. LakeArenal Feb 2020 #35
There is nothing absurd about the Japanese internment camps. MineralMan Feb 2020 #80
FDR disavowed that any of his policies were socialism in any way shape or form... ehrnst Feb 2020 #144
Yep. LudwigPastorius Feb 2020 #17
"To be sure, these do not represent the majority of Sanders supporters" wyldwolf Feb 2020 #19
More than those saying no smears of Democrats. LakeArenal Feb 2020 #38
Shit. They are on his staff dalton99a Feb 2020 #21
+1 Historic NY Feb 2020 #33
Yes! justie18 Feb 2020 #37
Exactly. LakeArenal Feb 2020 #39
Creating a gauntlet for rally goers to walk still pisses me off. krissey Feb 2020 #29
The guy on the right holding the sign could be a Trumper. MH1 Feb 2020 #136
Respectfully, I agree 100% with this post. Mike 03 Feb 2020 #36
Putin punks. Dirtdude Feb 2020 #40
Um, remember "Hillbots" in 2008? Warpy Feb 2020 #41
This shit us getting old. Et tu Atticus. Your Bernie hatred earns you a spot on my full ignore list. CentralMass Feb 2020 #43
Well, bless your heart! You won't see this, of course, since you have me on ignore, but Atticus Feb 2020 #83
If Bernie cannot stop his people from harrassing others, Bernie is no leader. Plain and simple. Stuart G Feb 2020 #44
Thank God that our Leaders do not have the control that you seem to demand Rilgin Feb 2020 #120
How about a "This is unacceptable. Do not do this in my name." ehrnst Feb 2020 #122
OK Rilgin Feb 2020 #124
"Thousands of post a day attacking one candidate and all his supporters..." ehrnst Feb 2020 #125
Guess I was right. Rilgin Feb 2020 #147
Look in a mirror, Hon. ehrnst Feb 2020 #148
Couldn't agree with you more, Atticus. Paladin Feb 2020 #45
This is Getting Old and Unproductive McKim Feb 2020 #46
Please reread the OP. nt Atticus Feb 2020 #86
Bernie Loses Mjolnir1956 Feb 2020 #51
Yeah... don't care. Will vote for Dem nominee.... the_sly_pig Feb 2020 #53
+1 DetlefK Feb 2020 #55
They* are foul mcar Feb 2020 #56
SO, if Sanders wins the primaries, people who support other candidates should stay home on LiberalArkie Feb 2020 #59
Where in hell did you get that nonsense from my OP? nt Atticus Feb 2020 #88
Would like to see a study done on this Billsmile Feb 2020 #63
There's a lot of folks who are not, never will KPN Feb 2020 #65
You got that right. nt lillypaddle Feb 2020 #66
... LexVegas Feb 2020 #67
It amazes me that everyone thinks only Bernie supporters are spouting vile and disgusting things. airmid Feb 2020 #69
Nice try...all from 2016...see that is the issue...what you said isn't true... and back it up with Demsrule86 Feb 2020 #71
Whatever...if you bothered to look there is current stuff. airmid Feb 2020 #73
Awww, such sweet memories. progressoid Feb 2020 #82
We are a Democratic Party running a primary. Sanders himself says nasty stuff about the krissey Feb 2020 #93
They are populist extremists Dukkha Feb 2020 #72
Exactly! BlueIdaho Feb 2020 #96
Would it surprise you to know Women under 45 Maggiemayhem Feb 2020 #81
We'll never win elections without building coalitions. D23MIURG23 Feb 2020 #84
Totally disagree with your premise. The people who I described as "Bernie Bros" are not at Atticus Feb 2020 #95
Yes, this is how I feel. redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #103
You evidently don't understand my premise. D23MIURG23 Feb 2020 #110
You evidently don't understand the nature of "Bernie Bros". They will most certainly vote for Atticus Feb 2020 #114
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2020 #119
No fire, just agreement. lark Feb 2020 #90
Bottom Line Roy Rolling Feb 2020 #92
Thanks for your thoughtful response. I am sure it would surprise many of the other posters who Atticus Feb 2020 #98
Jackasses snort Feb 2020 #97
Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #100
DU rec. I know one in real life and his behavior is atrocious. yardwork Feb 2020 #102
Wiki agrees. IADEMO2004 Feb 2020 #106
I agree which is why I could never support him then and MojoWrkn Feb 2020 #111
I have deleted all of them. I will not put up with redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #141
How many Bernie bros are Russian? Buzz cook Feb 2020 #112
How many were made viral by Sanders supporters? ehrnst Feb 2020 #118
Valid line of inquiry. Russia PLANS to disrupt/ divide/ our Democratic majority. joost5 Feb 2020 #179
It's become a loaded term TheFarseer Feb 2020 #113
K&R betsuni Feb 2020 #116
Lots of new people who just joined today. redstatebluegirl Feb 2020 #146
Perspective Vendiy Feb 2020 #151
The harassment. Can't vote them away. nt fleabiscuit Feb 2020 #153
LOL Vendiy Feb 2020 #154
You posted a good example. nt fleabiscuit Feb 2020 #155
Clarification please? Vendiy Feb 2020 #156
I'll add one: more harrassing than the thousands of unwarranted incarcerations Squinch Feb 2020 #158
Losing to Trump because of stupid bickering. marble falls Feb 2020 #162
it truely did leave a bad taste in my mouth for that candidate..still does... samnsara Feb 2020 #157
Benign term for Russian bots. AllyCat Feb 2020 #159
Convenient. nt Atticus Feb 2020 #160
speaking of those encouraging people to vote 🍊 on Election Day robbedvoter Feb 2020 #161
Haw about Sandersnistas? Jose Garcia Feb 2020 #163
Benign my ass. KPN Feb 2020 #164
What do you believe is an appropriate term for those described in the Atticus Feb 2020 #172
Doesn't need a term. My opinion: this is counterproductive, gains zero for our party or our KPN Feb 2020 #178
Don't be sorry about stating your genuine opinion. I think your view is myopic and Atticus Feb 2020 #182
Okay, I won't be. And of course you do. KPN Feb 2020 #185
Thanks for your thoughts. nt Atticus Feb 2020 #186
They remind me a lot of Ron Paul supporters. cab67 Feb 2020 #166
YES wisteria Feb 2020 #173
The Hasty Generalization Fallacy mikeysnot Feb 2020 #175
Think wkdjr Feb 2020 #176
"Drive by" attack much? You win "Most Disgusting Post" for this thread. Blech! nt Atticus Feb 2020 #177
Perhaps we should give them, instead, a Russian Themed Name, bobalew Feb 2020 #180
Are Turner, Sirota and Weaver Russians? nt Atticus Feb 2020 #183
Fortunately, no other candidate has supporters who ever act obnoxious online ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #181
Uh-huh, yeah, "they all do it" and "both parties are the same" and "all the primaries are RIGGED", Atticus Feb 2020 #184
I've certainly never seen such behavior on DU, for example ProfessorPlum Feb 2020 #188
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Sorry, but "Bernie Bros" ...»Reply #133