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Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)

211. This is my fault...

Mon Apr 16, 2018, 03:46 PM

Apr 2018

Last edited Mon Apr 16, 2018, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Because every time I'm away from DU for a few days, threads like this pop up...

I'll just leave this here and see myself out --

Link to tweet

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493 replies

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Highlight:

The Starbucks thing... [View all] ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 OP

local starbucks donates all kinds of food to my church to feed the hungry dembotoz Apr 2018 #1

Fire the manager. Racism can not be tolerated. Until this happens, Starbucks is dead to me. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #157

Ownership must be held accountable for management practices backtoblue Apr 2018 #2

One again I believe this was a failure of the police to properly assess the situation and Kirk Lover Apr 2018 #11

But the guys did not obey the police order to leave ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #46

The police didn't even check to see if this complaint was valid. nt Kirk Lover Apr 2018 #49

How do you check? Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #53

You check by talking to people which these officers did not do. Kirk Lover Apr 2018 #56

nope Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #68

Then Starbucks needs to put up sings saying no loitering - whatever...because selective Kirk Lover Apr 2018 #73

That is up to Starbucks Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #76

Did they explain that to the guys? I'm sorry fellas but by law we have to escort you out of Kirk Lover Apr 2018 #84

We do not know Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #103

But Starbucks should have a clearer policy... MountCleaners Apr 2018 #239

I thought the rule of buying something was about homeless people coming in and making demigoddess Apr 2018 #201

These men are real estate professionals who were waiting for a man with tblue37 Apr 2018 #258

yes, I know that, I guess my double negative was not done right. demigoddess Apr 2018 #309

I wonder if a 60 yr old non POC female in a Gucci dress with a Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #77

Or a 70ish White Male IllinoisBirdWatcher Apr 2018 #95

Friend of mine uses them for the internet in big city all the time. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #96

This is what is so nauseating to me as a black woman every time I read the comments tulipsandroses Apr 2018 #355

especially since it most white people, if asked to leave under these circumstances, would scream EffieBlack Apr 2018 #356

Why didn't they leave??? Why didn't Rosa Parks give up her seat? Why did the folks sitting a lunch Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #408

There was one in there 2 hours that hadn't bought a thing sarah FAILIN Apr 2018 #187

No doubt, Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #218

I Am Not Speaking RobinA Apr 2018 #143

Are the Starbucks with the signs about restrooms only in black neighborhoods..? I sincerely Kirk Lover Apr 2018 #146

They let a non paying person use ithe while this went on. sarah FAILIN Apr 2018 #189

Cool Story ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #58

LOL Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #63

Here is how the police check if the complaint if valid: ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #62

So when you have what amounts to this happen BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #71

yep Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #80

Think about the alternative ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #83

That happens when white boys trash a bar BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #91

I went to UCONN, so I know all about it. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #114

And I graduated from UMASS 35 years ago BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #122

Since you have been to UCONN ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #272

You do realize that BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #279

That and the dairy bar are part of UCONN's charm. CentralMass Apr 2018 #354

When black people tip over cars, set fires and run through the streets, its a riot. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #244

Very true...this is about discrimination pure and simple. There is no justification for the behavior Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #420

What a reasonable cop should do in this situation sdfernando Apr 2018 #102

That would also have worked, true ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #115

"cops generally won't give the benefit of the doubt to people who do not obey them" sdfernando Apr 2018 #139

I agree ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #267

Cops also arrest Black people and kill them in situations where a white person would not suffer Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #413

CONTEXT MountCleaners Apr 2018 #240

My problem is that I don't think the context applies here ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #274

Exactly this. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #124

Yes, that is how it works Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #90

The prudent course of action BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #98

No Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #110

Uh "not no" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #116

You are correct Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #130

And when a city has had enough of the multimillion dollar lawsuits BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #132

That's great Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #133

"they did their job without excessive use of force and no physical injury to anyone involved. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #136

Yes Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #149

"The FACT is they did not get shot, beaten, or tasered." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #161

"Criminal trespass" is NOT "defined by the accuser" when the accuser EffieBlack Apr 2018 #152

yes, it is Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #159

The cops no doubt asked the manager mythology Apr 2018 #259

"entire list of people who had a relevant opinion." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #264

This message was self-deleted by its author ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #118

What was the "criminal trespsss?" EffieBlack Apr 2018 #144

simple Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #158

Wow EffieBlack Apr 2018 #163

ok Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #176

It doesn't work that way BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #183

No shit Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #191

The direction they have taken this is a bit horrifying. NCTraveler Apr 2018 #169

I'm appalled EffieBlack Apr 2018 #179

If the men owned the shop it wouldn't be trespassing, you're line of action is out of uponit7771 Apr 2018 #147

"since they don't want to serve no niggers, you are supposed to get up and leave. " NCTraveler Apr 2018 #165

And that is where we disagree BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #186

This is a horrifically backward statement. NCTraveler Apr 2018 #192

Perhaps you are misinterpreting where I am coming from. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #197

Right Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #205

See this post - BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #208

If the owner (or agent of - a manager, etc) asks you to leave and you do not, that is trespassing. X_Digger Apr 2018 #256

The "manager" is NOT the "owner" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #263

No, you are wrong Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #282

This issue was found to be without merit BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #284

DAs often do that afterwords. More facts to come be known Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #287

And in this case BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #290

Some private property is also open to the public. Trespassing applies to both. X_Digger Apr 2018 #286

Just being "present" without causing a disruption BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #289

Actually yes it can Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #292

Um no BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #293

No, thats not why they didnt pursue charges Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #295

OMFG BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #297

Here we go again BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #345

Being present after having been asked to leave- is trespassing. BY DEFINITION. X_Digger Apr 2018 #344

Being "asked to leave" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #349

No such rule is needed. I know Title II law quite well, thanks. It doesn't negate property rights. X_Digger Apr 2018 #357

"It doesn't negate property rights." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #359

Federal CIVIL law does not trump state CRIMINAL law. X_Digger Apr 2018 #361

There was no finding of a violation of "criminal law" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #363

A "finding" is a trial. There was no trial. Get your terminology straight. X_Digger Apr 2018 #368

I suggest that you not try to impose a theory onto my terminology BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #370

It's applicable because a DA refusing to charge has no bearing on whether a crime was committed. X_Digger Apr 2018 #372

The entirety of the power structure admitted they were wrong BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #375

Yes, it is. Because the property owner said so. Not because of the DA. n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #376

It's over. All parties have moved on. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #378

I hope that you've at least gotten an education in trespassing, property rights, and Title II. n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #379

I hope you understand how silly "whitesplaining" is when in denial of reality. nt BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #380

Well, my hope is crushed. Missed it by that much. n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #381

Too bad. I expect it was fun while it lasted. nt BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #382

I'm still waiting for what the operator tells you when you claim discrimination. X_Digger Apr 2018 #383

It's over. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #384

C'mon, I really want to know what they say. X_Digger Apr 2018 #385

Let it go. It will make you feel better. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #386

Aww, toddle off. n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #387

But if the manager asks you to leave because you are Black it violates the law as well. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #406

And you sue later, for a civil violation. Criminal v civil. One doesn't negate the other. n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #414

Get real...that would never work...nope in the tradition of Rosa Parks and other brave Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #424

I have been in management since my early twenties in south Tampa... NCTraveler Apr 2018 #427

I have also been a manager for 20 of the 30+ years I worked in a federal agency before retiring BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #431

That is exactly right...it is Jim Crow rearing its ugly head. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #411

So, if the store or coffee shop owner is racist and wants to remove POC, the police Doodley Apr 2018 #107

Yes, the police have to do it. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #111

They have to do it? Since when have the police "had to" do anything? Doodley Apr 2018 #117

Pretty much. Here is how it works on a trespassing call- this will vary slightly by state. Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #276

The police don't have to do shit. hunter Apr 2018 #334

Thats not how it works. At all Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #335

Damn, our cops don't even feel obligated to pick up shoplifters. hunter Apr 2018 #343

When I was a deputy every call for service got a response Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #350

Cops don't have any greater duty to shop managers than they do shop patrons. hunter Apr 2018 #374

Actually, yes they do. Read the law Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #393

Yours is an excellent post BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #351

So, if a shop has ten POC and ten whites and store owner tells police the POC are trespassing. Doodley Apr 2018 #463

Apparently EffieBlack Apr 2018 #465

Yep. That doesnt mean the POC cant seek remedies via the courts for civil rights violations Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #469

So managers can call the police, demand they toss people out of their shops for whatever reason they EffieBlack Apr 2018 #472

Thats the truth. I was a deputy for over 10 years and thats how the law is Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #473

Where were you a deputy? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #474

You really are not comprehending the law here. Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #478

Not for the police to decide treestar Apr 2018 #483

I wonder what would have happened if Rosa Parks had obeyed police orders ? Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #417

No change would have occurred treestar Apr 2018 #484

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2018 #492

Two white people say we are waiting on a friend California_Republic Apr 2018 #3

I don't know ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #6

Ok got it California_Republic Apr 2018 #18

wrong, they do not obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #19

I have been to Starbucks in Cleveland and ever seen such a sign...sound like bullshit to me. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #415

I've worked in restaurants and retail PatSeg Apr 2018 #65

They would have met their friend and no one would have heard a thing about it. nt. NCTraveler Apr 2018 #170

This incident has been blown out of proportion. The manager handled it terribly. YOHABLO Apr 2018 #4

Those two black men were one wrong move away from being shot, one wrong word, NOT blown Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #82

but that's exactly it, white people who are not disturbing anyone at starbucks don't get arrested. unblock Apr 2018 #5

I totally agree on the traffic enforcement thing. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #12

I think you nailed it True Dough Apr 2018 #13

Thrown out if not ordering, yes, arrested, no. whathehell Apr 2018 #40

other patrons said that there were white people there who had been there longer without ordering unblock Apr 2018 #45

Yes, I'm listening to Progressive Radio right now, whathehell Apr 2018 #126

The manager is now "gone" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #129

I've seen white males harass and disturb people at Starbucks without purchase IronLionZion Apr 2018 #59

Believe me, if they'd been white it would be news 24/7 leftstreet Apr 2018 #7

See I don't agree at all ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #15

You just made my point leftstreet Apr 2018 #20

You know what I meant ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #30

It would be all over Fox News if they were obvious white christians. xor Apr 2018 #198

I agree somewhat California_Republic Apr 2018 #22

there are certainly some white people who would claim that if a black store owner tossed them out. unblock Apr 2018 #23

Sure, but would WE believe them? ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #32

that's the point. unblock Apr 2018 #34

Yep. If they were white, they would have simply met their friend. nt. NCTraveler Apr 2018 #174

The manager is a known racist... HipChick Apr 2018 #8

I haven't been able to identify the manager, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #16

It's a her...and there is an HR case HipChick Apr 2018 #26

+1. Makes sense dalton99a Apr 2018 #37

I believe it. Its going to be a big dust up when we debate how.... Anon-C Apr 2018 #54

I wonder why that is? HipChick Apr 2018 #79

Social position enforcement. Especially if they "feel" they have very little power to begin with. haele Apr 2018 #209

like whoa !!! uponit7771 Apr 2018 #148

What is her name? How do you know this? Tipperary Apr 2018 #150

Have you heard of this tool? HipChick Apr 2018 #168

Boom! ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #173

How about backing up a claim you make melman Apr 2018 #180

I don't google for people.. HipChick Apr 2018 #185

Revealing, is it not? Smh. Tipperary Apr 2018 #418

Some reason you do not want to answer? Tipperary Apr 2018 #416

I've been asked to order something or leave many times. pintobean Apr 2018 #9

It isn't Starbucks policy obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #21

So Those Signs RobinA Apr 2018 #155

Did someone state that? ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #164

A white woman said she got the code for the bathroom from an employee and used the EffieBlack Apr 2018 #167

OK, if you say you've been asked to leave many times, that this shit happens all the time in... Anon-C Apr 2018 #109

If that happened to me one time, I think I would order something while I waited the next time. Tipperary Apr 2018 #137

I Havent Either RobinA Apr 2018 #160

Starbucks is a franchise NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #10

Never used to be a franchise. Pretty sure it isnt. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #87

I stand corrected NewJeffCT Apr 2018 #128

Wow. Denny's was notorious for doing this sort of thing BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #131

There are some franchise locations... JHB Apr 2018 #171

Inside the US? If you have specific info about this I would be interested to know. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #219

It looks like the technical term for it is "licensed store"..: JHB Apr 2018 #223

I have always wanted to own one, anybody would. Which is why I ask. Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #224

It is 100% the fault of the Starbucks manager obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #14

Many businesses in cities have locked bathrooms ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #24

Starbucks already fired the manager, so IMO, that says something about how they assessed hlthe2b Apr 2018 #17

Hadn't heard trhat -- good! obamanut2012 Apr 2018 #25

Maybe Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #39

I cannot find anything saying the manager was fired, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #28

I read it in an article Sunday hlthe2b Apr 2018 #29

No. They are not required to arrest hlthe2b Apr 2018 #31

Then my question is what else can they do in that situation? ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #42

It is not at all clear they refused to leave. Taking them outside to discuss was step 1. Instead hlthe2b Apr 2018 #69

According to the news, both the starbucks employees and the cops asked them to leave. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #92

there were different accounts over the weekend. Sounds like SB & police got their story together hlthe2b Apr 2018 #97

Customers have no say in whether fellow customers are trespassing Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #177

I expect police to be professionals and to question EVERY situation. Perhaps you can consider this hlthe2b Apr 2018 #181

That's a very different scenario. Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #195

And only the police are able to identify if a law was broken. They must prove refusal to leave. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #217

Refusing to leave does. (As was the case here.) n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #257

This message was self-deleted by its author ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #182

But they ARE evidence of whether the manager is really enforcing EffieBlack Apr 2018 #184

Absolutely - as to the first Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #193

It is indeed for the police to decide! EffieBlack Apr 2018 #200

The fact that someone they have been asked to remove is black Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #216

Regardless of race, the police are not employed by business owners EffieBlack Apr 2018 #220

the law from Pen is posted #204 Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #229

I never argued that that the police were required to arrest the individual. Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #234

The same principal applies to removal from the premises EffieBlack Apr 2018 #242

I'll repeat what I posted elsewhere EffieBlack Apr 2018 #175

And I will repeat my response to that, which is ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #269

Yea, they do have to place you in custody Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #43

NO. not if they do not find a crime. They are NOT required to simply take the word of the manager. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #66

Did you read the post? Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #72

Did you even read the article? GulfCoast66 Apr 2018 #120

The cops are SUPPOSED to diffuse the situation BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #142

I understand community policing GulfCoast66 Apr 2018 #156

"the police must enforce that request. " BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #172

You are confusing trespass with public accommodations Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #190

Um no I'm not BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #196

Every property owner, including public accommodations, has the right to have trespassers removed. Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #204

What? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #207

ok Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #212

"if, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #213

It is kind of funny now Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #221

No, you have manufactured a different meaning BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #231

Criminal trespass has fuck all to do w/ private v public X_Digger Apr 2018 #261

Again BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #266

Seriously- civil law is not enforced by criminal law enforcement. X_Digger Apr 2018 #288

Do you really think that BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #291

Cops don't get involved in civil issues, generally. X_Digger Apr 2018 #346

I posted the 911 (and police scanner) recordings in the other thread BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #348

"refusing to leave" -- black letter trespassing. Derp. n/t X_Digger Apr 2018 #352

Violation of Civil Rights. Bankruptable offense. Duh. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #353

If because of a protected class membership, yes. But it does not negate the trespassing. X_Digger Apr 2018 #358

"If because of a protected class membership, yes." BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #360

CIVIL LAW IS NOT CRIMINAL LAW. For fuck's sake. X_Digger Apr 2018 #362

Dead horse dead horse dead horse BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #364

I'll stop when you demonstrate comprehension of the difference. X_Digger Apr 2018 #369

There is this concept called "denial" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #371

First you asserted that places subject to public accommodation aren't subject to trespassing laws... X_Digger Apr 2018 #373

Wake up. It's over. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #377

So ... Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #365

Did you listen to the 911 recording & police scanner recordings that were posted? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #366

Review 3503(b)(1)(i) Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #230

And this was disputed BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #235

Are you an attorney or involved in law enforcement? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #202

Yes. Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #206

Then I'm surprised EffieBlack Apr 2018 #210

Such a professional response. Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #228

The police do not have to prove that the manager is engaging in racial discrimination EffieBlack Apr 2018 #237

The statute seems relatively clear in this case, as do the facts Ms. Toad Apr 2018 #238

The issue of trespass is pretty clear treestar Apr 2018 #485

You get the police force you deserve. My community does not hire drones, but professionals hlthe2b Apr 2018 #487

They don't have to be drones to treestar Apr 2018 #488

you justify police who do not question and who you claim have no ability to discern... Obvioully the hlthe2b Apr 2018 #489

Which the DA was there to do treestar Apr 2018 #490

Like I said, you defend the kind of policing that involves no thinking whatsoever. hlthe2b Apr 2018 #491

I'm sure they did some thinking treestar Apr 2018 #493

Starbucks manager leaves company after arrest of Black men sparks outrage hlthe2b Apr 2018 #75

Now not "mutual"... Anon-C Apr 2018 #199

Maybe cops should start being held accountable for things like this Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2018 #35

when they do something wrong, for sure Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #47

This Starbucks arrest certainly seems wrongful Proud Liberal Dem Apr 2018 #50

Starbucks has not fired the manager - today's Philly paper: dalton99a Apr 2018 #36

WRONG: Starbucks manager leaves company after arrest of Black men sparks outrage hlthe2b Apr 2018 #74

Thank you for that update! BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #106

No franchises with Starbucks , unless this changed in the last couple years Eliot Rosewater Apr 2018 #89

They arent franchises. They are corporately run blake2012 Apr 2018 #123

I heard that the manager Tipperary Apr 2018 #138

I've repeatedly posted links... Post 74, Post 75 hlthe2b Apr 2018 #141

If a person is just hanging out without being an actual paying customer democratisphere Apr 2018 #27

Most people wait to order until their party is all there. dchill Apr 2018 #153

Read this article - gives explanations. salin Apr 2018 #33

Thanks, this gives a lot more detail than the stories on my google news. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #38

So since you "read the article" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #78

Why would I do that? ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #94

Of course you wouldn't. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #100

White Privilege and racial profiling.. HipChick Apr 2018 #41

Very good article blake2012 Apr 2018 #127

Starbucks is a Seattle company with Seattle values.. this store did NOT follow their values.. samnsara Apr 2018 #44

Right Lurker Deluxe Apr 2018 #48

I think closing the store is a bit extreme. Firing the manager and staff involved? Yes. Caliman73 Apr 2018 #145

Other people work there, and patrons treestar Apr 2018 #486

You are exactly wrong. dchill Apr 2018 #51

I think you are right. Denis 11 Apr 2018 #52

Race and discrimination are not binary things EffieBlack Apr 2018 #55

True, but... ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #67

"What else can you do but detain or arrest them?" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #88

Whoa ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #99

That is what they do to WHITES. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #101

An arrest is discretionary EffieBlack Apr 2018 #93

I agree that would have been nicer, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #104

What Effie wrote is called "Conflict Resolution" BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #112

But that implies that there is a mutual resolution available. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #113

People are TRAINED to work that out. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #119

If the manager insists that the men leave but can't prove the store has EffieBlack Apr 2018 #140

I agree 100% that the problem was probably the manager ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #270

I dont expect them to invesitigate civil rights complaints EffieBlack Apr 2018 #296

Please do not insult me ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #298

Im not insulting you at all - just stating a fact EffieBlack Apr 2018 #300

Implying that I am papering over racism is an insult. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #301

Thats not an insult EffieBlack Apr 2018 #304

But my question to you is still this: ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #305

The witnesses said none of this was done. They walked in and told the men to leave EffieBlack Apr 2018 #308

Well, they must have spoken to the manager before giving that order, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #316

Then they shouldve have taken 30 more seconds to ask a couple of questions EffieBlack Apr 2018 #322

Maybe, maybe not ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #324

I wanted to add something: a few questions ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #299

I partly answered these questions in the response I just posted EffieBlack Apr 2018 #302

My fault that we are cross-posting ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #303

My understanding is that they were not asked to leave by the manager, but I will check EffieBlack Apr 2018 #306

Their own lawyer said the manager asked them to leave. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #315

I still don't understand why they were asked to leave mcar Apr 2018 #310

Are you white or black or brown? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #312

You probably can guess mcar Apr 2018 #331

No I agree with you ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #314

You are going out of your way to give a benefit of the doubt to everyone but the two black men EffieBlack Apr 2018 #134

I dont think you understand how trespassing laws work Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #398

Except cops cant make up new parts of the law on the spot as they go along. Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #396

a week ago an associate and i attended a meeting about 90 miles from home. we met at a starbucks to dembotoz Apr 2018 #57

I am familiar with the environment at Starbucks ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #61

I have mixed feelings about this PatSeg Apr 2018 #60

Buy something in order to hang out crazycatlady Apr 2018 #64

The problem with these stories... titaniumsalute Apr 2018 #70

Why would a White person being removed NOT be in the news? catbyte Apr 2018 #81

Because it's not a racial incident ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #86

Are you kidding me? Of course media reports White people being shot by police--it just almost catbyte Apr 2018 #105

Maybe I am off base on the shootings, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #108

But they weren't two Black kids being tossed out of Starbucks--they were two men catbyte Apr 2018 #125

Are YOU Kidding? RobinA Apr 2018 #194

Not by percentage BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #226

The Poster RobinA Apr 2018 #253

In the scheme of things BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #262

You certainly seem invested in that unproven narrative. LanternWaste Apr 2018 #236

This is an insult, you should apologize. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #268

I think it is wrong not to let someone use the bathroom...if she/he needs a bathroom, they need CTyankee Apr 2018 #85

Fuck that shit. If other white patrons right there are calling Ng BS blake2012 Apr 2018 #121

"The starbucks thing"...................... Afromania Apr 2018 #135

This whole thing is such f'ing bullshit grumpyduck Apr 2018 #151

It is not Starbuck Policy to have to buy something...I have sat in there for hours working Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #154

Waiting to meet friends at a coffee shop is a norm, not an exception. nt NCTraveler Apr 2018 #162

I haven't had time to dig into the details on this yet, but a couple of my thoughts on it xor Apr 2018 #166

Glad to hear the manager is gone...barista should go too. Demsrule86 Apr 2018 #178

I never go to Starbucks, don't drink coffee. phylny Apr 2018 #188

The Starbucks ellie Apr 2018 #203

This is my fault... Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #211

I hope this isn't pointed at me ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #271

And for the millionth time Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #311

I only use the word the police have used. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #313

But the D.A. (Prosecutors) REFUSED to call what was being alleged BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #317

That's fine, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #318

The definition is the definition but the applicability was ERRONEOUS. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #320

Actually, they got it right from the legal perspective ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #321

No they didn't BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #323

Did you even read the definitions I provided? ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #325

Did you forget where you even got them from? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #326

Wow ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #327

You torpedoed your argument BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #328

The point is that the facts fit the definition of a crime ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #329

You were not there BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #342

Funny, you weren't there either... ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #389

Read this article BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #392

You need to do some research before claiming I am wrong about what was said. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #394

It's remarkable that from what has been posted BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #395

Egads man, are you blind? ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #397

Your scotoma continues BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #399

Ok, I see the problem I think ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #400

To respond BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #401

I did miss that, thanks! ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #402

And again BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #404

This is a bit obtuse. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #407

To continue BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #425

You are ignoring the fact that the police already knew a crime was committed ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #428

What? BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #432

Ok, you need to read what I am writing ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #435

I quoted what you wrote BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #436

I'm getting a bit tired of your nonsense ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #447

You are "tired" of being challenged I suspect BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #452

You are still refusing the make sense ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #455

I am making perfect sense BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #458

You are repeating things I already addressed, which makes no sense. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #459

In response BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #464

I'm glad you corrected my mistake (which still has no bearing on anything, but thanks!) ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #466

In reply BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #467

Ok, this is my last post to you. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #468

Good. BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #470

Excellent analogy EffieBlack Apr 2018 #439

There are so many posts in this thread BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #443

God bless you for trying - but I think it's for naught EffieBlack Apr 2018 #445

I know BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #450

I shouldn't have said it's for naught or not penetrating since I've learned a lot from you in this EffieBlack Apr 2018 #451

My brain is fried BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #453

I found the "loitering" ordinance from Philly: only applies to sidewalks and such passages. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #319

fair enough... Blue_Tires Apr 2018 #340

Half of the actors were right, half were wrong. SomethingNew Apr 2018 #214

You're blaming the victims but not the people who arrested them EffieBlack Apr 2018 #222

No it's not. SomethingNew Apr 2018 #241

I assume youre being facetious, but youre not far off EffieBlack Apr 2018 #243

This suggestion is completely divorced from reality. SomethingNew Apr 2018 #245

No - it is actually how police are TRAINED to handle these situations EffieBlack Apr 2018 #246

So what do you propose they do if SomethingNew Apr 2018 #247

They can do one of two things EffieBlack Apr 2018 #248

Wow. SomethingNew Apr 2018 #249

Trying to use law enforcement to eject law-abiding people from your shop EffieBlack Apr 2018 #250

Saying who is and who is not allowed in SomethingNew Apr 2018 #251

I will pray that you don't ever end up on a jury deciding the fate of a cop EffieBlack Apr 2018 #254

This message was self-deleted by its author ChubbyStar Apr 2018 #255

I know you must be kidding. This has to be performance art. X_Digger Apr 2018 #260

You clearly dont have a clue what the cops job is Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #280

Thanks for that clear explanation. KY_EnviroGuy Apr 2018 #341

In that sense trespass means be told you are no longer permitted on the property Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #347

Thanks again for those clarifications. KY_EnviroGuy Apr 2018 #388

The police should've assessed the situation better, the men were never asked to leave uponit7771 Apr 2018 #233

I've read that they were never asked to leave or told the policy ecstatic Apr 2018 #215

The company itself is condemning the company, and the manager has been terminated. Crunchy Frog Apr 2018 #225

THANK you! EffieBlack Apr 2018 #227

+1, "It is also NOT company policy that you have to buy something to hang out." This i what I uponit7771 Apr 2018 #232

In most Starbucks stores in urban areas they do have this policy oberliner Apr 2018 #265

+ 1 Quixote1818 Apr 2018 #252

"the store manager might have been a racist, but that is probably something we will never betsuni Apr 2018 #273

My main points were about Starbucks and the cops, not the manager. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #275

I do see your point... Mike Nelson Apr 2018 #277

This is very true, the company is appearing to take this seriously. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #278

Ok here is how trespassing laws work from the cops perspective Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #281

This is a concise and easy to understand description, thanks! ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #283

Ive been on these calls that I knew were bullshit Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #285

"I imagine Starbucks will attempt to make it up to these guys somehow." - There will be... PoliticAverse Apr 2018 #330

I can not tell you the number of times I have waited for friends at coffee shops before ordering gollygee Apr 2018 #294

Interesting... tonedevil Apr 2018 #307

The fact that so many people here not only see nothing wrong with what happened, but EffieBlack Apr 2018 #332

Well, remember when the store clerk wouldn't show an expensive purse to Oprah? Phentex Apr 2018 #338

There's a reason THIS time it isn't racism. EffieBlack Apr 2018 #339

You are insulting me ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #336

My guess is that the manager is a "racist but" TexasBushwhacker Apr 2018 #333

You are serious with this? Dyedinthewoolliberal Apr 2018 #337

Have you read through the thread? I think I am clearly serious. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #390

The question is why are you making such a huge deal of it? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #440

You accuse me of ignoring centuries of discrimination ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #449

I don't believe this was an attempt to understand or to help you decide "whether" to condemn the EffieBlack Apr 2018 #454

I don't think we can agree on much here. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #457

Since OP has threatened to ignore me, he probably won't read this, but I'm writing this for those EffieBlack Apr 2018 #461

There is no policy torius Apr 2018 #367

I agree that there doesn't seem to have been a company-wide policy ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #391

What you don't seem to understand - or refuse to understand EffieBlack Apr 2018 #426

But this isn't even true. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #430

With each of these posts, you further prove my point EffieBlack Apr 2018 #438

Listen closely please ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #448

some who are having problems with this..... Civic Justice Apr 2018 #403

Not a good idea ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #410

certainly not the best idea... "I said that to make a point"... Civic Justice Apr 2018 #419

I figured ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #421

my comments are not directed at you.... why would you think that? Civic Justice Apr 2018 #422

LOL ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #423

"I am always open to being proven wrong, though." EffieBlack Apr 2018 #442

And this was within the lifetime of many of us or our parents EffieBlack Apr 2018 #441

The store is likely to be shut down MichMan Apr 2018 #405

For one thing, is calling the cops the only option? JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #409

Not the only option, no ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #412

The manager's action was the core of the problem. JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #429

Oh come on ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #433

I believe it was due to inaction JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #434

Or why not just let them stay? What was the problem? EffieBlack Apr 2018 #444

Couldn't agree more! JNelson6563 Apr 2018 #480

The problem I have is TNLib Apr 2018 #437

Perhaps because she feared that the other people who were doing the same thing would call her out EffieBlack Apr 2018 #446

Thats the problem its an inconsistent treatment of people TNLib Apr 2018 #456

According to the former lawyer for the two men, she did ask them to leave. ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #462

Example of police officer who didn't think his only option was an arrest because someone complained EffieBlack Apr 2018 #460

The difference in these cases Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #471

The Starbucks case also didn't have a violation of the law until the police officers decided, EffieBlack Apr 2018 #475

Thats just not true Lee-Lee Apr 2018 #477

One of the young men who was arrested is Rayshon Nelson Izzy Blue Apr 2018 #476

Thank you for that update BumRushDaShow Apr 2018 #479

I have seen her id'd as Holly Hilton, ExciteBike66 Apr 2018 #482

dumbass manager. but they fired her ass. pansypoo53219 Apr 2018 #481